But they will only listen to guidance if you're either tall (6ft) or good looking and jacked.
So what you're advising doesn't match reality.
The Destruction of Modern Women
- Thread starter Let God Arise
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So what you're advising doesn't match reality.
I can't comment on the US, but here in Europe I've rarely seen short guys struggle with girls. They have enviable levels of confidence and seem to never shy away from interactions with women.
In addition, I've seen many a tall guy be submissive in his relationship, while my shorter friends always lead. Of course, that doesn’t mean that the latter are immune to the pitfalls of modern relationships, such as unexpected breakups and divorce.
And, no, I'm not claiming that being short is an inherent advantage. I'm simply saying that in my experience they tend to maximise their potential, while taller guys are more tentative which can lead to subpar results.
Europe, despite what Europeans try to say, is a far better situation for men to meet women than in the USA. The USA is so bad, it is hard to explain. I know plenty of guys here who are very tall, good looking, have great jobs (despite great jobs being hard to come by), from great families, were college athletes, on and on, and they struggle to meet quality women. Mostly, because in the USA, quality women are extremely rare and men here are hungry for them and scoop them up right away.
So, I believe what you say, but what @MrRedsquare says is very true of life in the USA. TBH, being 6' and Jacked isn't often enough. You need to be more like 6'2" and jacked and have a 6-figure job and be in your 30's with lots of savings and growth, to have a chance. Luckily for me, I am there, but I can see both sides and I see how dire the situation is in the USA. One glimmer of hope here is that things are getting so bad economically that women in the USA seem a lot more open to age gaps. I am in my late 40's and women in their 20's seem to find that even more attractive. That wasn't true 5 years ago.
GrecoRoman
Catholic
It will be hard for our European brothers to fully understand. In Europe there is still a level of decorum although everywhere is getting worse.
One way I’ve thought about it is that with the women you interact with in the US, there’s this underlying tension and fakery that gives you the sense she’s a completely made up person adapting her behavior for her maximum gain and your maximum loss. As Chris Rock said a long time ago “Everything about you is a lie.”
Exceptions are female family members and others you meet that you form a genuine connection with (could be in your dating age range or not)
There are a few factors European men don't have to deal with and take for granted.
#1) Capitalism. As I grow older and wealthier, I realize how truly evil capitalism is. It turns relationships into financial contracts. Women in the USA truly only see men as ATM's, all the while the economy is melting down and jobs are disappearing. In other words, a man in the USA could be 6'5", 250 pounds at 12% body fat, super sweet, intelligent, educated, kind, dress well, and if he doesn't have a good job and be willing to spend that hard earned money on women, women will want nothing to do with him.
#2) Third worldism. Yes, Europe is now starting to feel the pains of third worldism, but their women are starting to rally behind their men. The women in the USA get the advantage of not having to deal with third worlders, because we have cars and sprawling suburbs, that their parents pay for them to have and stay safe. So, they can support BLM and pro-crime politicians and third world immigration, but not feel the impact of it. Worse yet, this makes the bar even higher for men here, because not only do they have to compete with these third worlders getting a hand up with DEI policies, they have to provide this expensive life to their future wife to keep her safe. Making the price to purchase her as a wife even higher and more dangerous.
#3) No social safety nets. In the USA, if you get laid off, and this happens to many men who are super hard working, smart, and good employees every day. There is no safety net. You are pretty much on your own. And if you have a wife and kids in this situation... I don't even want to think about that stress.
I agree 100%. Women are like clay. Currently, bad, evil men are grabbing them up and shaping them into abominable creations.
Why is this so easy? Because they've distracted most men with abominable activities of their own - porn, time- and money-wasting hobbies, awful food that wrecks their masculinity, etc - and disengaged them from intercepting those women and showing them a better way.
But some women are more resistant to the defilement, and also longing for a good man to help them toward a better way.
Before I got married a few years ago, though I certainly didn't escape all the evil influences, I knew there was something very wrong with the world and I was hoping a good man would find me and we could live a better way together.
If my husband hadn't assertively and aggressively scooped me up, I'd still be trying to find someone decent among all these fallen, captured men, or more likely, I'd have given up and gone the nun route.
I had been learning about the Orthodox Church for about a year. This was during the scamdemic. While I wanted to attend a service, I was nervous about going alone, very in my shell after the psychic assault of Covid, uncertain because of all the ethnic parishes with services in other languages, so I hesitated. My husband, before we ever met, over a phone or video call, helped me find a good parish to attend for the first time, and I did, and it was absolutely amazing. That one thing completely changed my life. From there, he took my hand and led me into the church and our baptisms and wedding.
I have single friends now who are clearly trying very hard to turn away from all the darkness and attract a decent guy. Until a good man finds them, they're kind of floundering, very susceptible to more bad influence. Even the strongest, most independent and capable women I know want nothing so much as a good, strong man they can follow.
They're not the perfectly unadulterated specimens that some men want - but neither are those men.
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Wow I used to really enjoy watching Andrew dismantle hoes and feminists for their ideals, but this one clip will destroy most the work he's done.
He used to be calm, logical, debatable and respectfully let the other person state their view before destroying them.
Or he'd use the Socratic method and allow them to tangle themselves into mental gymnastics where their contradicting pre-programmed NPC/MSM beliefs would be revealed, shattering their point.
But this feminine and overly emotional response shows he wasn't so much about the movement of men's rights, but about his ego and mental superiority. The blatant hypocricy is bad enough, but hiding it and then raging when discovered shows immaturity and this lack of control completely defeats the stoic intellectual moralist philophosy persona he was trying to portray.
Sad.
This is true as well. Before I quit caffeine, I was doing well when it came to meeting women. I don't date, because I am not sure if I want to stay in the USA and there is no way in hell would I want to have kids here and have to rely on a job to support them. Not with all the third world immigration, DEI policies, AI, late stage capitalism running out of finance to keep companies afloat, the rise in violent crime, etc. So, I am in no hurry and not looking, but I did meet a lot of women.
But after taking my diet from a 9/10 to a 10/10 and quitting caffeine, women seem to subconsciously notice it and they are coming at me in droves. Yes, the system sucks, but if men here do want to meet women, you have to be willing to push yourself to be the most stoic you can be. No sugar, no caffeine, hell no to alcohol or drugs, fasting, working out, pushing yourself as hard as you can. Women will notice it and they like it, and they can't explain why it is, but you will know the reason, because you are the best version you can possibly be, which beats out most other men.
Things I have changed...
My diet was always good, now it is perfect.
I quit caffeine.
I started intermittent fasting on non-lifting days.
I do one 36 hour fast every week.
I never miss a workout.
A lot of this isn't just about physical health, it is about mental health. The combination of these two being at peak performance will grow confidence. There is probably nothing women find more attractive than confidence. If you have to rely on sugar or caffeine to have energy, you will lack in confidence, believing you are not enough and you need a substance to be your best, which is a lie.
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Self-improvement is always a good idea. My husband didn't approach me until he had significantly improved his diet, habits, physique. But he wasn't and isn't perfect.
What attracted me most, beyond our natural attraction and compatibility, is that he was a man with a crystal clear plan. Once he figured out he was interested in me, he was laser focused on getting us together, baptized, and married.
Of course, once that all happened, the real tests began. It hasn't been easy - but it's worth it and I'll always respect and admire him for steering me toward the light as he did.
Yes, he had to learn to believe in himself before he had the confidence to make, what is really a big step, for a young man in life. Great to hear!
Not sure if it applies to you but I would not correlate "desire to be led" with "submission". Men shouldn't stroke their own ego, prematurely.
A woman might want to you to lead, but getting a woman to submit to you is a whole different thing.
Height, or any positive characteristic, can become a crutch on which we rely on. The short guys had to struggle to attain that success so psychologically they've built themselves up. Whereas a lot of the tall guys became complacent and never learned those skills.
Yes, even in Western Europe the women are more feminine and pleasant to be around, and they're thinner and more attractive in general. The main downside though is that they are pretty much all socialists/leftists, whereas in the US it's easier to find conservative women (albeit they tend to be stuck up too). And just in day-to-day life it's way easier to live as a conservative man in the US
I am of completely average height, and I feel like European women are less obsessed about height. At least I got more positive reactions even from tall women in Europe.
The hypergamy in the US is just so ridiculously strong it's comical. I mean if you're in the top 15% simultaneously in face, body, finances, etc. then you can easily overcome the height thing. But good luck having all those other traits at once.
I agree with everything you said, except the liberal v. conservative view point.
While you are correct, women in the USA, especially the middle of the country are more likely to be "conservative" than women in Europe, what exactly does this mean? And in asking this question, I want to compare liberal women of Europe with conservative women of the USA. I will leave out liberal women in the USA, because they are pretty much the most selfish/disgusting people on the planet.
This thought came to me a few months back, when I realized I no longer had to work, as I had achieved my financial goals.
The liberal European women want to truly be equal, in that they want to pay for things and take care of their man and work jobs and be productive. I don't prefer this to a woman that wants to stay home, but it seems their desire at equality is truly noble, even if not desirable for raising a family.
The conservative USA women want to let their man "lead" as in they either work low stress jobs or don't work at all, and the man has the say in how the money is spent. This sounds great on the surface, but the more you look beyond the surface , you see it is manipulation. Sure, their man controls the money, as long as they get their way, and if they don't they throw a fit and make his life hell. This isn't true of all USA conservative women, but it is true of many. Capitalism and competing with their friends remains very important for them. Then the pressure of providing the best of your best for you children, private schools, unaffordable college, a home in a "safe neighborhood", on and on, it never ends. I don't blame the women for this, I blame capitalism.
So, given these two situations, lets say you have $2,000,000 and are burned out on working. You want to semi-retire and take it easy and enjoy life.
Most European women would think this is amazing, they would be happy to be with a man like this and would enjoy the life style this could afford and probably keep working if they wanted more consumer items.
Many conservative women would not accept this. Because you can always keep working and make more and provide even more for them. Newer cars, bigger house, more showing off for friends she doesn't even like, better stuff for the kids, to show them off too.
I have nothing in common with the women who think life is about work and buying things, no matter if they are liberal or conservative. I could change a European liberal woman with love and kindness, they have the foundation for a better way of thinking and living. I don't think I could change a conservative woman into accepting not the best of the best but enjoying life and free time, when I am supposed to be her "man" aka work-horse.
But yea, overall, you are correct, European women are a dream v. American women, and that is without getting into how much better they look and dress v. USA women.
GrecoRoman
Catholic
It’s also a double edged sword. I posted this before, when I was lifting heavy and more ‘jacked’ it attracted a bunch of hoes and promiscuous women. One interaction stood out with a Latina who said “I like your body, it reminds me of my Marine ex boyfriend” but she was highly slutty. This could lead you more into sin and down a bad path if you’re not careful.
A lot of people both men and women can’t see past the surface. While attraction is important it’s not everything. I’d rather take an average or cute woman who is loyal and would be a good mom over some trophy wife who’s trashy. Even the average or cute ones are in short supply or still getting hit up nonstop.
Why do you think that is?
Why do I think USA women are hyper-consumerist?
Because that is what the USA has become. Late stages capitalism. No happiness, no love, just consumerism. A good example is the TJ Maxx stock. It has been on fire recently. Why? It is cheap odd items, where women can go and spend hours digging around and finding a consumerist item to make them feel happy for a few days. It is the same chemical reaction as a drug.
It is amazing how many women can't pay their own bills and rely on their parents or doing unscrupulous activity, all so they can drive a new car and have new furniture, that they don't even really care about at the end of the day.
The only fix for this would be destroy the capitalist system and replace it with a family-first system and I don't see that happening any time soon. I am very serious about moving to Europe due to this, though I have a few more years left in the USA to make my decision and see if something shakes out here.
The consumerism today is insane v. just 20 years ago, it is really sadly remarkable how much our society has been changed by it.
GrecoRoman
Catholic
I’ve seen this too. It’s an effect of our society that rewards unchecked greed and materialism. “Honey you have 2 million, but Joe evangelical fraud next door is a pastor and buying another McMansion, we can’t retire and enjoy life, we need 5 million” and the nagging goes on.
I’d argue that a lot of these fake conservative women are complete frauds and hellish to live with anyway. They don’t take Christianity and it’s teachings to heart.
Do you think this is a natural byproduct of competitiveness ingrained in the American ideals/dream or do you think Americans are trying to fill a void in their life due to the decline?
It seems to me that Europeans are just filling the void in a different way. They're trying to keep themselves preoccupied/busy in order to not fall into depression, women in particular. That's why they're both opinionated but also seem naive.
I think it is both. Capitalism is a very evil system that often brings out the worst in people. Hyper-competitivity with no real idea as to why or the reason for it. It has been this way and only gets worse as the wealth all floats to the top. At the same time, men fill the emptiness with gambling, porn, and drugs. Women fill it with consumerism, social media, and drugs.
I don't see a fix to this, other than, to replace capitalism with a family-first type system. And that isn't going to be allowed by an election. The problem isn't "can you find a woman in this system?" for a fact I know every man here can find a good woman in the USA. The problem then becomes, what kind of system and society will your children inherit, and that is what keeps me up at night and has me still working as much as I can and saving as much as I can, to escape this disaster of system.
Weirdly because of the socialism and the tighter living spaces where one doesn't have cars and other goodies easily, the expectation can't be that high. And women aren't going to be getting jobs easily or high paying jobs, certainly. They also have an identity as a nation, that although they have been invaded, it's not really a melting pot, though they act like it is somewhat akin to the USA in that they want to claim they are similar.
As we get into later, the fattening and average woman being both "richer" (or having backstops, more money at her disposal) really hurts the American man. The average european man might have a harder life materially or with upside, but most are unaware that you can be a 200-300k earner in the USA as a man and with some good traits, and there are barely 6s walking around that are available to you (young, social connections, not taboo/cockblocked, etc, whatever).
I just came across this sentiment again from a group of younger to middle aged women, this weekend: the idea that making $200k in the USA isn't in the ~95th percentile. I think they truly believe that like 20% or more of people make more than this amount. It's possible that 15% of "households" make 200k+ now, but single people making that kind of money isn't all that common.
Yes, and they are heading into major economic problems, which will again be balanced by both good and bad (or worse).
This is the whole part when a guy who has money then has to consider ROI. Just frivolously spend to "get a woman" ... many of us around here just won't do that, since so few even do anything to justify the spending. Or are young/pretty enough to even entertain it.
Great points. It's been that way for 20-30 years in Europe, yes.
I saw a reel the other day where that MMA guy Paddy looked at the camera twice and told the guys watching "Don't get married boys" lol