Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

This is from October 2023:

Blade Runner said:

I foresee $1 million dollar BTC by the end of the decade....

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You're calling him wrong over 5 years in advance? The rest of your post is equally ridiculous.

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"we'll be lucky to see 200K Bitcoin within the next 3 years (2029)"

A 33% annual return? Yes, I would consider myself lucky (or just smart).
 
but you've claimed a one million US dollar BTC evaluation within the next 4 years at least one hundred times so one good turn deserves another.
No, I've claimed, generally speaking 500k in the next "cycle" (hard to define now but meaning by 2028-29) and $1M in the early 2030s. Do I think with debasement that $1M is possible by 2029? Yes.
Ain't gonna happen, we'll be lucky to see 200K Bitcoin within the next 3 years (2029)
As @JayR said, we already have pretty standard CAGR performance for BTC, so don't get all excited that it's just dipping ~20% right now from the big, quick move up in early October, something that's common even in bull markets.

We have the death cross finally today, which is bullish. The next 2 months+ should be fun. I've said to be cautious about the market, and thus BTC too next year, so I'll state the same and we'll see what decisions I make in Q1 or Q2 of next year.

By the way, here is BTC CAGR for 4 year periods in a cool chart where you can check at any point what it has been. Even now it's 10%, but that won't last. I suggest buying. ;)
 
I sold all of my bitcoin and most of my eth in early 2024 to buy alt coins. Huge mistake.

The only coin that I have that is holding up is bittensor Tao, and maybe sui(I’m about even on sui, haven’t gain or lost anything from where I bought). The rest of the coins I bought are all down 90% or more. Most aren’t going to survive.

Just buy Bitcoin and stocks on the s & p 500, hold them long term. So long as you are going to be holding at least a few years you will come out ahead. Try to buy dips obviously .

I’d avoid the crypto space if you were thinking of buying now(bitcoin, eth, and a few others like xrp and xlm, hopefully Tao should be good long term, ). I lost big time on “safety pick” coins like Kas, Tet, aitech, alph, mintlayer, and others. There’s nothing safe about crypto.

I guess Kas as the project is still going, it could come back but not looking good right now.

Look at it this way, Bitcoin really is a hedge against inflation.

I still talk to cynllo, the member that helped start Christ is king website, he sold all his coins yesterday, he held onto Tao and one or two others, he had invested a lot more than I did, unfortunately he, like everyone else lost a lot as well. There is still some hope for Tao I guess but I mean, much better to be a Bitcoin maxi and just buy and hold. Or buy the ETFs if you’re unsure.

TLDR avoid alt coins, there’s too many coins and too much trash. Buy bitcoin and hold long term and you’re fine. Or buy stocks.
 
I sold all of my bitcoin and most of my eth in early 2024 to buy alt coins. Huge mistake.

The only coin that I have that is holding up is bittensor Tao, and maybe sui(I’m about even on sui, haven’t gain or lost anything from where I bought). The rest of the coins I bought are all down 90% or more. Most aren’t going to survive.

Just buy Bitcoin and stocks on the s & p 500, hold them long term. So long as you are going to be holding at least a few years you will come out ahead. Try to buy dips obviously .

I’d avoid the crypto space if you were thinking of buying now(bitcoin, eth, and a few others like xrp and xlm, hopefully Tao should be good long term, ). I lost big time on “safety pick” coins like Kas, Tet, aitech, alph, mintlayer, and others. There’s nothing safe about crypto.

I guess Kas as the project is still going, it could come back but not looking good right now.

Look at it this way, Bitcoin really is a hedge against inflation.

I still talk to cynllo, the member that helped start Christ is king website, he sold all his coins yesterday, he held onto Tao and one or two others, he had invested a lot more than I did, unfortunately he, like everyone else lost a lot as well. There is still some hope for Tao I guess but I mean, much better to be a Bitcoin maxi and just buy and hold. Or buy the ETFs if you’re unsure.

TLDR avoid alt coins, there’s too many coins and too much trash. Buy bitcoin and hold long term and you’re fine. Or buy stocks.
Lightning was the nail in the coffin for alts. Once Lightning adoption hit critical mass after 2020. There is no legitimate argument for a use case for anything but bitcoin.
 
Lightning was the nail in the coffin for alts. Once Lightning adoption hit critical mass after 2020. There is no legitimate argument for a use case for anything but bitcoin.
With the widespread availability of USD-denominated stablecoins (not to mention the existence of Monero as an actual privacy coin) there is no legitimate argument for the use of Bitcoin as a currency. At best, it can theoretically serve as a store of value against fiat debasement. But given that this use case implies a much lower rate of growth/compounding as Bitcoin matures (one more in line with traditional investments like gold, stocks, and real estate), there is no reason to give credence to the sort of wild price predictions we hear from Bitcoin maxis. And without the realistic anticipation of outsized returns, it's doubtful that most HODLers will remain interested in Bitcoin for long.

With zero practical application as an actual currency, Bitcoin becomes a sort of fungible collectible token. It will retain some value so long as it retains its popularity. But given that its popularity is almost entirely based on the belief that HODLers will achieve exceptional future returns, should those returns fail to materialize, its popularity will inevitably decline. And once that happens, look out, because there is nothing to arrest the associated decline in price. No earnings, no fundamentals, no favorable P/E ratio, no dividends or coupon payments. Once the bottom falls out, it's game over.
 
With the widespread availability of USD-denominated stablecoins (not to mention the existence of Monero as an actual privacy coin) there is no legitimate argument for the use of Bitcoin as a currency. At best, it can theoretically serve as a store of value against fiat debasement. But given that this use case implies a much lower rate of growth/compounding as Bitcoin matures (one more in line with traditional investments like gold, stocks, and real estate), there is no reason to give credence to the sort of wild price predictions we hear from Bitcoin maxis. And without the realistic anticipation of outsized returns, it's doubtful that most HODLers will remain interested in Bitcoin for long.

With zero practical application as an actual currency, Bitcoin becomes a sort of fungible collectible token. It will retain some value so long as it retains its popularity. But given that its popularity is almost entirely based on the belief that HODLers will achieve exceptional future returns, should those returns fail to materialize, its popularity will inevitably decline. And once that happens, look out, because there is nothing to arrest the associated decline in price. No earnings, no fundamentals, no favorable P/E ratio, no dividends or coupon payments. Once the bottom falls out, it's game over.
I can have all the fiat and stablecoins I need, using bitcoin.
Own bitcoin, rent dollars.
(Ledn, Strike, Unchained, Xapo Bank, Firefish, Arch)

Yes, you can’t eat, wear, or live in a bitcoin - but it can be transmuted to all of those things (without having to sell it)
 
without the realistic anticipation of outsized returns, it's doubtful that most HODLers will remain interested in Bitcoin for long.

With zero practical application as an actual currency, Bitcoin becomes a sort of fungible collectible token.

I don’t know how to say this, but if you talk to any bitcoin Maxi(someone who only buys bitcoin, and no other crypto currency), I would say about 100% of them are extremely bullish on bitcoin long-term, hardly any of them want to sell ever. All of them are convinced that it will simply go up in value forever.. as there is a finite supply of bitcoin, I’m looking at all of the charts, in the long run the price only goes up.

Yes, there are peaks and dips over the course of years, the value goes up overtime without fail. There’s a fine amount of it, you can’t just print up more bitcoin the way countries like to print up dollars or other fiat currency.
 
There’s a finite amount of it, you can’t just print up more...
Sportsball trading cards are the same, there were only a finite amount of them made yet their value drastically fluxuates year over year. The Prizm Zion Williamson Rookie Card sold for as much as $1300 in late 2019, it now sells for a $20 (a 98% drop in value).
 
Sportsball trading cards are the same, there were only a finite amount of them made yet their value drastically fluxuates year over year. The Prizm Zion Williamson Rookie Card sold for as much as $1300 in late 2019, it now sells for a $20 (a 98% drop in value).

And a high grade topps 1952 Mickey mantle sells for 12millon.

If you want to compare the Zion Williamson card to a crypto you can compare it to fartcoin. At one point last year it was selling for $2.52 per fart and now is down to 24 cents per fart and honestly probably won’t ever come back
 
I don’t know how to say this, but if you talk to any bitcoin Maxi(someone who only buys bitcoin, and no other crypto currency), I would say about 100% of them are extremely bullish on bitcoin long-term, hardly any of them want to sell ever. All of them are convinced that it will simply go up in value forever.. as there is a finite supply of bitcoin, I’m looking at all of the charts, in the long run the price only goes up.

Yes, there are peaks and dips over the course of years, the value goes up overtime without fail. There’s a fine amount of it, you can’t just print up more bitcoin the way countries like to print up dollars or other fiat currency.
The whole "Bitcoin only goes up because the supply is finite!" argument ties in to what I said about it being a fungible collectible token. Yes, the Bitcoin supply is finite (as of now, at least - it could theoretically be expanded in the future via network consensus, but let's go ahead and say it remains capped at 21 million). The problem is that just because something is finite does not inherently confer it value. Scarcity itself does not create value, scarcity only creates value when there is also demand for the scarce resource in question. In regard to Bitcoin, there is no natural demand for it whatsoever, because it performs no function. It literally does nothing.

As I pointed out above, it isn't even useful as a currency. So basically, all you can do with it is collect it and trade it with other collectors. This is fine as long as people believe it to be valuable, as that belief drives demand. But you have to stop and ask why people believe it to be valuable in the first place. And the answer is: because they believe the price will go up. That's it. The entire basis of Bitcoin's value proposition is that "the price always goes up". And indeed, this has been true so far over multi-year time horizons. But what happens when people start to doubt that proposition? What happens when belief begins to falter?

I'll tell you what happens: they sell en masse and the price of Bitcoin plummets. This has happened many times throughout Bitcoin's history, and it will happen again. Eventually, it will happen for the last time. Bitcoin could afford to experience such massive volatility and the resultant catastrophic price collapses when it was a niche asset. But when it's being promoted by the President of the United States and pushed by Wall Street, expectations are higher. Bitcoin simply cannot tolerate another major collapse of the type it has weathered in the past, the damage to its brand would be devastating and permanent. No one would ever take it seriously as an asset class again. Traditional finance would see it as a painful joke, and the next generation of investors would view it as an antiquated Boomer coin. What little demand it previously generated would evaporate into thin air, as all belief in outsized future gains would be dashed. Bitcoin's final collapse will see it lose over 99% of its value within days or weeks. In hindsight, Bitcoin will be recognized as nothing more than the king of shitcoins.
 
Sportsball trading cards are the same, there were only a finite amount of them made yet their value drastically fluxuates year over year. The Prizm Zion Williamson Rookie Card sold for as much as $1300 in late 2019, it now sells for a $20 (a 98% drop in value).
I attended Zion's debut game in the Smoothie King Center in New Orleans. The expectations for Zion were off the charts at the time, but he ended up being one of the biggest-ever NBA draft busts -- constantly injured, baby-mama-dramas, prima-donna attitude, etc.

The plummeting value of the Zion rookie card has nothing to do with finite supply of the card and everything to do with Zion unexpectedly sucking.

Sportsball rookie trading cards are a very poor comparison to Bitcoin.
 
You can make the same argument for stocks or gold or any other commodity. You could wake up tomorrow and all your stocks will be worthless so you shouldn’t ever buy stocks. Don’t buy physical gold coins because it could suddenly drop in value and become worthless, it’s currently usable to make jewelry or coil in electronics, but maybe those industries could collapse overnight.

As of today yes you can buy property with bitcoin.

If you go to a Tesla dealership you can trade dogecoin for a Tesla.

Crypto exchanges exist. Yes it’s possible one or more could collapse, so long as you are not storing your coins on the exchange then your coins are safe.

If you’re trying to say “hey we could have a thermo nuclear war and the power grid could collapse! You’d lose your crypto!” Again so long as I’m using cold storage my coins are safe. I’d need to get to some sort of power(a hydro geo grid powered by the Hoover dam, or a grid powered by geothermal generator or solar or whatnot, but the coins will still be there
 
I attended Zion's debut game in the Smoothie King Center in New Orleans. The expectations for Zion were off the charts at the time, but he ended up being one of the biggest-ever NBA draft busts -- constantly injured, baby-mama-dramas, prima-donna attitude, etc.

The plummeting value of the Zion rookie card has nothing to do with finite supply of the card and everything to do with Zion unexpectedly sucking.

Sportsball rookie trading cards are a very poor comparison to Bitcoin.

I thought Zion put on a shit load if weight? And that caused his injuries, and it’s even in his contract that he has to stay below a certain weight to avoid fines? I could have him mixed up with another player
 
You can make the same argument for stocks or gold or any other commodity. You could wake up tomorrow and all your stocks will be worthless so you shouldn’t ever buy stocks. Don’t buy physical gold coins because it could suddenly drop in value and become worthless, it’s currently usable to make jewelry or coil in electronics, but maybe those industries could collapse overnight.
If you don't understand the fundamental distinction between stocks (literal ownership of revenue-generating businesses, and the legal right to those profits), gold (a unique metal that has been prized for literally all of recorded history) and other commodities (let's say copper, rubber, oil, or rare earth minerals, which are the building blocks of the modern global economy) and Bitcoin (a recent fad innovation that is essentially a multiplayer online collectible game with no relationship to the real-world economy), then you really don't have the economic and financial literacy to be making speculative investments. I would respectfully encourage you to eat a bit of humble pie in regard to your disastrous shitcoin investments and ask yourself how exactly you got things so wrong. Where was the error in your thinking that led you to assign value to things that turned out to ultimately be absolutely worthless? If you do this work, I think you will come to understand at least the essence of my argument, even if you still disagree with it.
 
If you don't understand the fundamental distinction between stocks (literal ownership of revenue-generating businesses, and the legal right to those profits), gold (a unique metal that has been prized for literally all of recorded history) and other commodities (let's say copper, rubber, oil, or rare earth minerals, which are the building blocks of the modern global economy) and Bitcoin (a recent fad innovation that is essentially a multiplayer online collectible game with no relationship to the real-world economy), then you really don't have the economic and financial literacy to be making speculative investments.

I honestly can’t remember if you’re in the United States or not, we have what’s called the securities exchange commission or SEC. As for cryptocurrency and how it’s classified, the sec classifies it as a security. IRS classifies it as property.



I would respectfully encourage you to eat a bit of humble pie in regard to your disastrous shitcoin investments and ask yourself how exactly you got things so wrong. Where was the error in your thinking that led you to assign value to things that turned out to ultimately be absolutely worthless?

I thought the 4 year bitcoin halving cycle would continue to result in an alt season as miners sell their bitcoin and buy other coins. That simply didn’t happen this cycle.


[wuote]If you do this work, I think you will come to understand at least the essence of my argument, even if you still disagree with it.
[/QUOTE]

Whether you realize it or not, you’re making the exact case for bitcoin dominance. People will continue to avoid shit coins and just buy bitcoin.

Oddly, you even seem to realize that you’re making the case for a bitcoin even if you’re doing it unintentionally, you are most definitely doing that
 
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