Christian Morality Thread

Of course they are. "Love thy neighbor," but "Kill them from time to time when they step out of line"? Forgive someone but put them to death for their sins via the death penalty? Complete double speak that you can't justify without running in theological circles.

Yes. It's actually very straightforward.

Look at the Old Testament law for example:

Leviticus 19:18: “You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.”

Exodus 21:12: “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death.”
& many other examples of the death penalty.

There it is. Love your neighbor but put them to death from time to time when they step out of line.

WRT to forgiveness yet executing the death penalty, I have said a few times now that forgiveness does not mean declining to execute justice. Mercy and forgiveness are not the same thing. Not sure which part of this is confusing to you.

You are the one twisting doctrine and speaking out both sides of your mouth... "Kill, but kill with love, not hate!" Hatred implies wanting to hurt someone. I have no such desires. So please don't confuse my theoretical philosophy with the actual state of my being.

I quoted a significant amount of Scripture and Patristic sources. By all means explain to me how I have twisted them.
 
The idea of forgiveness as a procedural thing seems extremely flawed. Bad thing happens = you forgive. It basically verges on indifference. What’s the difference? White people seem very forgiving with the fatiguers.

The idea of forgiveness as closure and acceptance is okay but leaves a lot to be desired. We have to remember there’s always a greater picture.

Dynamic situations do not really have these kind of theological or philosophical questions.

The reason this forgiveness talk seems fake to me is because this is a dynamic situation. The widow can forgive if she likes, but for everyone else they’re still in the crosshairs.

That doesn’t mean you start killing liberals but it doesn’t mean you ignore the problem. Dynamic problems require confrontation and resolution.
 
Of course they are. "Love thy neighbor," but "Kill them from time to time when they step out of line"? Forgive someone but put them to death for their sins via the death penalty? Complete double speak that you can't justify without running in theological circles.


You are the one twisting doctrine and speaking out both sides of your mouth... "Kill, but kill with love, not hate!" Hatred implies wanting to hurt someone. I have no such desires. So please don't confuse my theoretical philosophy with the actual state of my being.


So you want someone who loves the enemy beside you? You felt love toward the muzzies while they were trying to capture you and cut off your head while live streaming it on the internet?


The two are not mutually exclusive. You can hate someone enough to kill them, yet do it in a non-emotional and level headed fashion. To state that a human can summon the desire to kill another human being without the intensity of a vengeful and hateful anger is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I've never heard of someone calmly and intentionally killing someone while their heart is filled with love, compassion, and forgiveness towards the person they are killing.

You don't have to love or hate people, it's not a binary choice.

I have killed people and I didn't hate them, or feel love towards them.

It was war. Which is different to Trayvon feeling anger towards Denzel, because Denzel knocked up Trayvons baby momma Laquesha.
 
Of course they are. "Love thy neighbor," but "Kill them from time to time when they step out of line"? Forgive someone but put them to death for their sins via the death penalty? Complete double speak that you can't justify without running in theological circles.


You are the one twisting doctrine and speaking out both sides of your mouth... "Kill, but kill with love, not hate!" Hatred implies wanting to hurt someone. I have no such desires. So please don't confuse my theoretical philosophy with the actual state of my being.


So you want someone who loves the enemy beside you? You felt love toward the muzzies while they were trying to capture you and cut off your head while live streaming it on the internet?


The two are not mutually exclusive. You can hate someone enough to kill them, yet do it in a non-emotional and level headed fashion. To state that a human can summon the desire to kill another human being without the intensity of a vengeful and hateful anger is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I've never heard of someone calmly and intentionally killing someone while their heart is filled with love, compassion, and forgiveness towards the person they are killing.
Big dog you don't know what you're talking about
You've never been in combat, you've never killed anyone, and youre projecting knowledge you don't have lived experience in.
 
I have killed people.
Why did you do that? And for (((whom)))? Don't you know that killing another human being is a mortal sin that damns you to hell? You're supposed to forgive your enemy and turn the other cheek.

This thread is not about your military service and how your violence is better than my violence. It's about whether or not to forgive Charlie Kirk's assassin, or put him in the electric chair.
 
Because we are commanded to love our neighbors as ourselves, that is we must love ourselves first and foremost, before we can extend this love to others. Therefore everyone, a king or a subject, has a duty to fight and thwart evil wherever it pops up, to protect your family, friends, neighbours- all the people of good will you care about, negligence is sinful, there is no place for passive resignation in the face of danger or destruction. Loving an evil person also means not letting him do any harm, whatever it takes.
 
Why did you do that? And for (((whom)))? Don't you know that killing another human being is a mortal sin that damns you to hell? You're supposed to forgive your enemy and turn the other cheek.

This thread is not about your military service and how your violence is better than my violence. It's about whether or not to forgive Charlie Kirk's assassin, or put him in the electric chair.
Hmm maybe you've heard of Jesus Christ who forgives us of our sins?

The state has to enforce the law of man, but someone can still forgive them and live with out that anger or guilt on their conscience.
 
Erika Kirk is free to forgive. The State shouldn't be.
Agreed. The state should punish criminals, including the death penalty for serious crimes. The state should also make priests or pastors available for the prisoners, to encourage them to pray for forgiveness and salvation before the sentence is carried out.

As for individual Christians, I believe we are to forgive others as Christ forgave us, and I believe that doing so lifts a weight from our souls that is by far the better choice vs carrying the hate and letting it poison you. We can trust that God will punish our enemies as is due, or possibly lead them to salvation, in which case God be praised. Vengeance is Mine, says the Lord.
 
We can trust that God will punish our enemies as is due, or possibly lead them to salvation, in which case God be praised. Vengeance is Mine, says the Lord.
As believing Christians we must have this trust, especially remembering all the injustices occurring every second around the world that nobody will ever know about. There's no hiding from or escaping God's justice- And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
 
As believing Christians we must have this trust, especially remembering all the injustices occurring every second around the world that nobody will ever know about. There's no hiding from or escaping God's justice- And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Matthew 5:26
Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Some people only forgive minor things but not major things. When God forgives His children, He does not differentiate between small or big sins, but He will forgive anything as long we come to Him and confess and repent.
 
Why did you do that? And for (((whom)))? Don't you know that killing another human being is a mortal sin that damns you to hell? You're supposed to forgive your enemy and turn the other cheek.

This thread is not about your military service and how your violence is better than my violence. It's about whether or not to forgive Charlie Kirk's assassin, or put him in the electric chair.

It was part of my job, nothing more than that.

And I did for the people beside me, and those behind who couldnt do it for themselves.

And for the pay.

I am not damned to hell for it, and I don't have any reservations about it morally. The people I killed were so far from what you consider moral to be unexplainable to you. I won't dehumanise them, but they were the worst of what humanity can produce. They were either pure evil, or indoctrinated to believe their evil was actually good.
 
I am not damned to hell for it, and I don't have any reservations about it morally.

Okay, but you're kind of highlighting the problem.

We have Christians saying leftists should be forgiven because that's what Christ would do and to not walk around with hate in your heart. Let's call it the proactive morality.

Then we have people like you saying you were lawfully killing bad people at the behest of something, you didn't do it out of hate and it was actually a good thing. Let's call it reactive morality.

How are we supposed to square this? Both sides can't be correct. What this boils down to is that we should forgive, but if you've already dealt with the problem by beating the dogshit out of him, that's okay too.

I also don't like this government should be punishing people like it's some kind of loophole for Christians. If I'm a civilian I can't punish anyone, but if I work for the state then I can? Make it make sense.
 
Okay, but you're kind of highlighting the problem.

We have Christians saying leftists should be forgiven because that's what Christ would do and to not walk around with hate in your heart. Let's call it the proactive morality.

Then we have people like you saying you were lawfully killing bad people at the behest of something, you didn't do it out of hate and it was actually a good thing. Let's call it reactive morality.

How are we supposed to square this? Both sides can't be correct. What this boils down to is that we should forgive, but if you've already dealt with the problem by beating the dogshit out of him, that's okay too.

I also don't like this government should be punishing people like it's some kind of loophole for Christians. If I'm a civilian I can't punish anyone, but if I work for the state then I can? Make it make sense.

Firstly, you shouldn't think of it as "government" punishing a criminal, it is supposed to be society punishing a criminal in order to deter other people carrying out acts of the same.

Secondly, there is a difference between murder, whether it is cold or hot-blooded and killing someone in self defence, or the defence of others, and they are both different to killing an enemy in war, whether by sword and spear, or bullet and grenade.

Finally, yes, you should strive to forgive people their transgressions as that is holy and Christ-like, but you are not Christ and even if you forgive someone, you shouldn't allow them to then commit immoral/criminal/violent acts upon another person.

I can think of scenarios where I would never forgive and would enact such vengeance as I would be labelled a psychopath. For example, if someone molested or attempted to molest my child, there would be no forgiveness, I would kill them without a pause, and without being stopped I would probably go for their family as well, and then salt the ground after. I'm happy with being judged by a jury in the here and now, and God in the hereafter on that.
 
Thank you for your honesty, but you are in spiritual danger brother. Even the most pious monks don't take salvation for granted and still have a healthy fear of their judgment before the Almighty right up to their passing. Killing others made in the image of God, no matter how far you believe they're fallen, is no small thing.

From your posts my sense is that you are suffering from what St. John Chrysostom called stony insensibility. I do too, it's not uncommon. Such numbness of heart needs deep healing and requires a lot of prayer and in many cases, mine being one, deliverance and healing.

This is my short reply to you before bed. I will give you a more thoughtful reply tomorrow, for what it's worth.
 
and without being stopped I would probably go for their family as well, and then salt the ground after. I'm happy with being judged by a jury in the here and now, and God in the hereafter on that.

I can relate, but this is immoral. Hard to separate justice from revenge. I've noticed the desire for vengeance in manslaughter cases. Even if you got a DUI manslaughter case, some families expect an eye for an eye. No one seem to preach forgiveness then. When we get a cold-blooded murder or some chimp out all of sudden white people are bending over backwards to forgive.

I know why things work the way they do. What you're talking about is the law of the jungle. Punishment as a deterrent is actually quite primitive ethically speaking. Correctional punishment is more ethical. Of course, we can't argue with the results. We all know it works.

That's why if people are going to steer a conversation, like Charlie Kirk, towards Christian forgiveness then I at least want it explained why they feel the situation calls for it. Otherwise, it just seems like virtue signaling. People need to be careful with this proactive morality because leftists have their own version too. Birds of a feather... Constantly getting "consent" from a woman is proactively avoiding rape but as we all know that's retarded. Saying you don't want hate anyone before the body is cold; cowardice or proactively preventing sin?
 
Thank you for your honesty, but you are in spiritual danger brother. Even the most pious monks don't take salvation for granted and still have a healthy fear of their judgment before the Almighty right up to their passing. Killing others made in the image of God, no matter how far you believe they're fallen, is no small thing.

From your posts my sense is that you are suffering from what St. John Chrysostom called stony insensibility. I do too, it's not uncommon. Such numbness of heart needs deep healing and requires a lot of prayer and in many cases, mine being one, deliverance and healing.

This is my short reply to you before bed. I will give you a more thoughtful reply tomorrow, for what it's worth.

I possibly didn't explain that fully, I would carry out retribution fully in the knowledge that it may lead to a life in prison, or damnation.

Perhaps I'm just more honest with myself than most, I know my failings (and strengths). I know there are things that I can forgive, but there are things I know I would struggle to forgive and things that I cannot forgive. And there are those things that I would enact furious retribution for.

I believe most people are like that. Flawed, but capable of striving to be the best they can, but always with an Achilles heel that may upend everything in their life. And that is not just spiritually, but in every endeavour in life such as work, education, marriage, family life etc.

I am a very deeply emotional person, but I'm also controlled, calm and steadfast. I believe that is what a man, especially a father, should be. Strong, passionate and caring, but tempered by thought and logic.
 
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