The morality of piracy

[Blade Runner]

Where in the Bible is it taught that your responsibility to be a moral person depends on how good the government is? You speak about the Eastern Roman Empire as if it was some Christian utopia, when it was in fact insidiously corrupt. Not that it was uniquely corrupt. The corruption on both sides of the Roman Empire eventually led to their downfalls.

I think his point was that we don't even have a semblance of purpose or some direction of the good, since the government and modernity is so chaotic now. Again, we're all at this forum for a reason - people forget that quite frequently when we debate things, and it should be the first thing you remember in informing your posts.

Nero is the kind of government that the Bible says to obey.

No.

Yes, things are worse today, because so-called Christians do not disobey the system like they used to do during Nero's reign.

Indeed.

 

[Shaquilleoatmeal]

I have seen the craziest posts in this thread!

Nero, who rounded up Christians and fed them to lions, was better than what we see today!?

Personally, I have never been fed to a lion as a Christian. Has anyone else here been fed to a lion? Has anyone even known of a person being fed to a lion?

In fact, Nero rounded up all the Christians in Rome, then tortured and executed them with lavish publicity. He burned Rome and blamed the Christians. He murdered his mother, brother, and wife. He had sex with young boys. You could go on for days about Nero, but in fact the entire Roman Empire was pagan, and got up to every kind of evil and oppression. They had orgies. They had slaves. The list goes on and on.

Have you not heard of all this? Do you really think things are worse today?

In some ways it could be argued things are worse today depending on opinion.

 

[Blade Runner]

In some ways it could be argued things are worse today depending on opinion.

I've talked about this before as the yin and yang concept. The Christians had belief and solidarity precisely because people were in fact out to get them. They lived truly because they were a distinct group from the rest of society; if someone bothered to join or continue in that, they were all in since you knew you might pay a price.

In the modern day, sadly, it's just up to each one of us and we all have this secular idea of "you were just born into it" and in the west we largely have been watered down since living is much more comfortable and with conveniences that few want to relinquish. This is the problem, and is part and parcel to the women and christian/euro fertility crisis. People just do whatever they want and then after the fact make claims about what they are, aren't, what they want, etc. Mostly lip service stuff.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Bro, I asked a question earlier, can I read internet articles for free using internet archive?

Are you gonna avoid it?

I don't know enough about the particulars to give you a good enough answer. The only experience I have with internet archives was trying to read RVF at one time. I would say take the principles given in the Bible and test your case with them.

 

[Thomas More]

I understand that Orthodox and Catholics are often advised to ask their priests about questions like this. Does anybody have a priest who says getting copyrighted materials from file sharing sites is not stealing?

 

[Острог]

I understand that Orthodox and Catholics are often advised to ask their priests about questions like this. Does anybody have a priest who says getting copyrighted materials from file sharing sites is not stealing?

How many priests are educated in the subject...

 

[FrancisK]

You guys have turned an innocent subject into mocking how your brother decides to worship Christ and even spilled it into other threads that have nothing to do with anything. Now we even went from piracy to pederasty.

Slow down, you don't have to agree on every topic to have respect for your fellow brothers in Christ. This has gone too far, the level of senseless disrespect around the forum lately has been out of control.

 

[Thomas More]

You guys have tuned an innocent subject into mocking how your brother decides to worship Christ and even spilled it into other threads that have nothing to do with anything. Now we even went from piracy to pederasty.

Slow down, you don't have to agree on every topic to have respect for your fellow brothers in Christ. This has gone too far, the level of senseless disrespect around the forum lately has been out of control.

If you are saying I was mocking the practice of asking a priest, I did not mean it that way. I accept that this is their practice, and that by asking their priest, they are inquiring into church tradition on the topic at hand.

It seems to me they could just admit it is stealing, but they think it's no big deal, and plan to keep doing it. I suppose I will take this opportunity to recognize that they aren't willing to do so and drop the matter.

 

[FrancisK]

If you are saying I was mocking the practice of asking a priest, I did not mean it that way. I accept that this is their practice, and that by asking their priest, they are inquiring into church tradition on the topic at hand.

It seems to me they could just admit it is stealing, but they think it's no big deal, and plan to keep doing it. I suppose I will take this opportunity to recognize that they aren't willing to do so and drop the matter.

Not you brother, you're the last guy to get your high off of putting down other brothers.

 

[Northern Pilgrim]

I am going to close this thread if we can't stay on topic. I was hoping for some official Church teaching on the matter and discussion surrounding the morality of file copying/sharing/downloading.

In order to simplify this discussion and keep things clear, maybe we can break things down into some specific categories. Instead of arguing about options, maybe we can discuss facts...

For piracy there are 2 main categories
One. Piracy on the high seas; the classic rape, loot and pillage. Taking a vessel or seaside village by force and enacting whatever heinous and dastardly deeds against the former owners.

Second is digital piracy.
Here the two similar sounding terms diverge greatly because in the first case something (an actual physical good or token of value) is actually taken or removed, as it may be only possessed by a single person/entity at a time. With the second, no one is stealing a one-of-one item. Essentially using this term "piracy" for copyright infringement, unlawful distribution, etc just makes it sound worse than it really is. In a way it is ironic because the whole point and purpose of a work of art, book or film is to be shared with and enjoyed by fellow humans.
Of course, creators/artists want to be compensated for their work, but the current model and laws around this type of thing is a little ridiculous. There is literally no way to enforce it and morality aside it really just highlights the peak clown world nanny state currently. Maybe something like a patent would be better, where an artist/author/director has exclusive rights for a certain number of years and then it goes into the public domain.

There are so many good questions in this thread already are a few more:
What about covers of famous songs? Should a street busker give the original artist a percentage of his take?
Who has a copyright on the Bible and is it ok for publishers to earn from printing all of these translations?
How about content creators on YouTube? Why can they just take each other's ideas and pawn it off as their own?

I certainly don't have the answers but hope we can continue to discuss here, without getting too distracted or off topic. A heated argument between the men of this forum can still be civil and mutually beneficial.


In closing, I hereby put forth a motion that all posts in this thread be ended with a hearty, YARRRR MATEY! or the poster will be forced to walk the digital plank.

 

[Shaquilleoatmeal]

I don't know enough about the particulars to give you a good enough answer. The only experience I have with internet archives was trying to read RVF at one time. I would say take the principles given in the Bible and test your case with them.

I understand that Orthodox and Catholics are often advised to ask their priests about questions like this. Does anybody have a priest who says getting copyrighted materials from file sharing sites is not stealing?

It’s not a file sharing site.

Here’s an example of an archived article:

https://archive.ph/ADSvu

 

[Thomas More]

It’s not a file sharing site.

Here’s an example of an archived article:

https://archive.ph/ADSvu

I think that link is legit. I looked it up and this type of site is legal. There is a law concerning these sites that allows the archiving. Owners of copywritten material posted on the site can get it taken down if they want.

I found this Quora link on how they handle copywritten material. Not an ideal source but it seems good enough for getting a quick summary.

How does archive.org get away with archiving and hosting websites? Aren't websites copyrighted, and therefore illegal to archive and host...

Answer (1 of 6): I will go into a bit more detail here. Let me use media in general and you can apply it to websites. Let’s use ONE old VHS tape as my example here. Think of only ONE tape. Which you purchase for $99.00 during the peak of the VHS boom. You take this single tape home and press p...

www.quora.com

 

[Острог]

Pederasty is outlawed in the US because of it's Protestant heritage. Not sure what point you thought you were making here.

Riiight... just like freemasonry is outlawed in the catholic church yet every bishop is a mason and lavender mafioso. Meanwhile the Pedestant heritage didn't outlaw freemasonry. It's almost as if there was a connection there... wonder what it might be....

What point you thought you were making?

 

[Thefinalepic]

Riiight... just like freemasonry is outlawed in the catholic church yet every bishop is a mason and lavender mafioso. Meanwhile the Pedestant heritage didn't outlaw freemasonry. It's almost as if there was a connection there... wonder what it might be....

What point you thought you were making?

Let's keep this thread on topic - calling "every bishop a mason and lavender mafioso" is a massive stretch.

 

[Острог]

Let's keep this thread on topic - calling "every bishop a mason and lavender mafioso" is a massive stretch.

Ok, almost every bishop. That should cover Vigano and couple others.

 

[Blade Runner]

How many priests are educated in the subject...

This is slightly off topic and possibly deserves its own thread, but I have had similar misgivings on certain topics that don't seem either a) all that relevant (this would be one - just like taxes, I wouldn't bother asking a priest about that) and b) or that they are particularly that capable of answering, for various reasons. For western boomer married types, the female question is in that league, I've argued. Now, that doesn't mean they can't give you good advice, or general advice, but I'd almost be more open to hearing a celibate priest give "advice" on the female question of the modern day, the one that comes up with all its spinoffs and is essentially the reason we have this forum, if we are honest.

I could be wrong, but from what I've seen from priests in how they handle certain things like modern cultural inversion (women and their role in society = don't talk about it), and the fact that they can't or are unwilling to do anything about it, including talk about it, it gives me major pause or ask myself what's the point in even bringing it up. It's sorta sad too because it's really not supposed to be something where the culture and examples are so far gone that you break from a tradition of even asking others about it, because you feel their understanding is at best, lacking. Am I wrong here?

 

[Острог]

You mean hellenic virtues like pederasty?

The Orthodox Nationalist: Christ and Christianity Are Greek – TON 090518

Dr Matthew Raphael Johnson shows the Greek origins of Christianity in this episode, by discussing the case of the city of Sepphoris.

www.radioalbion.com

There are some who believe that Christianity is a foreign, “third world,” Judaic religion. This is a common error. Old Testament Judaism has no relation either ethnically or theologically with Talmudic Judaism. The latter is the Jew's rejection of the Old Law. It is replaced with them collectively as the Messiah. Modern pseudo-scholarship in the subsidized universities perpetuates this mythos. Christ was a Greco-Roman in his sympathies, theology and ultimately, his cultural background. This is shockingly easy to prove.

The thesis of this lecture-broadcast is that Christ was culturally a Greek. He abandoned the profoundly corrupt Jewish ruling class and broke with their legal provisions. He followed in the footsteps of the prophets in siding with those who would destroy this hegemony, the Romans.

Jeremiah sided with Babylon against an oligarchic Israel. The broader point is that the boundaries of Europe included North Africa and the Levant before Islam. Christianity was born in a Greek milieu.

Mary the Mother of God was from a Greek city, Sepphoris, with Nazareth being a small suburb. This means that the Holy Family spoke Greek often and was a part of ancient Greek life. Why did Christ choose this region to spread his message? Why not Jerusalem? What is his Greek background telling us? Why were the Jews of the era so vehemently against him from the beginning? Could it be that he was a foreigner? Is this why they kept referring to his place of origin as a pejorative label?

Jesus taught at the local synagogue. His insights were such that he was informally called “rabbi” which meant teacher, it was not a title conferred by the Jewish religion like it is today. He chose Capernaum, another Greek city, in which to teach. Despite being educated at the Temple, he remained outside the Jewish mainstream through his connection with Greek culture. In other words, Christianity is a European, Greek faith. Most of the Apostles had Greek names and all the earliest Apostolic writings are in Greek. The earliest synodal structures conducted their business in Greek. Is this a coincidence?

Galilee was also called Decapolis, a very Greek part of the Mideast. Galilee was under the control of the Tetrarch, Herod Antipas, the son of Herod the Great. The Galilee region included towns such as Capernaum and Magdala. It was a mixed area, but the dominant language was certainly Greek.
Tiberias is a Greek city that became the headquarters of Herod Antipas on the shoreline near Capernaum. Tiberias was named after the Roman Emperor who ruled at the time. It became the new capital city of Galilee. Religious Jews shunned Tiberias during the time of Jesus, since it was built on top of a cemetery. This made it “unclean” under Jewish law. Yet, this is where Christ created his ministry.

Am I wrong here?

Spiritual father should provide where a regular priest might not.

 

[homersheineken]

Some internet archives are free, in which case it is not breaking the law.

Depends where you live - in some places it is illegal. They are trying to ban the Archive in the US too). Just think, trying to tell the truth on what the Media concealed will be a crime. That is immoral???

Ad Blockers are privacy. You're depriving website owners of income, consuming their content without giving them compensation. If the ad doesn't show, Adsense knows it and the site owners do not recieve the money.

 

[homersheineken]

Is it immoral to crack the software preventing you from driving your own car how you wish?

And the next logical corporate step (after heated seat and remote start subscriptions)... What if all automakers employ this to the point where after you buy the car, you need a monthly subsciption to use/start the car you purchased? You don't have to buy the car if you don't agree...

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Ad Blockers are privacy. You're depriving website owners of income, consuming their content without giving them compensation. If the ad doesn't show, Adsense knows it and the site owners do not recieve the money.

From your perspective, this isn't immoral either so your question begging here is disingenuous.

As for equating Adblockers (perfectly legal and ethical) to piracy (stealing content, both illegal and immoral), that's already been refuted in this thread.