Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

[chance vought]

We've officially moved from comparing Bitcoin to fire, electricity, and the printing press to gravity and the speed of light. What's next, retconning Bitcoin into the creation story alongside Adam and Eve?

Tell that to the Bitcoin Cash advocates.

And lo and behold, the relevance and usefulness of email has been steadily declining over the past two decades as alternative technologies have eclipsed it (smartphones and a myriad of social media apps/sites). Oh, and how's your landline telephone doing these days? That was once a universal and indispensable network that literally underpinned the global economy. Now it's an afterthought, a relic. The network effect is extremely powerful and seems insurmountable - until it isn't.

Your scope is too narrow - instead of land lines or email…think electronic communications networks. Everything from the telegraph, to the deep space network sending commands to Voyager 2.
Electronic communications networks - analogous to:
Digital gold network. That could be base layer bitcoin sending large amounts of value, lightning network sending smaller amounts quickly, and cashu mints sending small amounts instantly and privately. Dozens of other things built on bitcoins absolute scarcity that have not been invented yet.

 

[chance vought]

You can't prove anything yet keep denying the fact that 8.1 billion humans will accept the US dollar as payment and only 100 million humans accept bitcoin. The numbers don't lie yet btc bros refute them anyhow with "Muh, slaves," and "Meh, the future."

We wouldn’t need this thread though.

In addition, you can never seem to square that part of the NWO JQ plan is a cashless society and that bitcoin is helping to usher that in.

What are your concerns with a cashless society?

Nothing makes sense with bitcoin and there are continually new "updates" about the ever shifting goal posts of bitcoin "information." Again, this is a feature not a bug, because the more complicated (((they))) can make a financial instrument the easier it is to confuse normies and scam them out of their hard earned cash with the promise of future gains. Sometimes those future gains materialize, sometimes not. Either way, "investing" in any form of monetary instrument is gambling and should be decried, not cheered on as some form of "truth machine."

Saving money is how to gain agency and options in life. Having money only means that you have served others’ needs more than yourself. Money and wealth are a measure of one’s generosity of both time and effort, not a measure of greed. Leaving clothes on the store racks and food on the grocery store’s shelves, and tools in the hardware store for others to buy and use. Spending money is greed.

 

[Australia Sucks]

And lo and behold, the relevance and usefulness of email has been steadily declining over the past two decades as alternative technologies have eclipsed it (smartphones and a myriad of social media apps/sites).

Not true. Most people still use email on a daily basis (if not for sending at least for receiving emails). Email and social media perform different functions. Most smart phones come with an email app which people still use. I cannot remember the last time I used a landline when not at work. Two completely different things.

 

[Australia Sucks]

What are your concerns with a cashless society?

It is a valid concern.

Physical cash is a physical bearer instrument. Bitcoin is a digital bearer instrument. Everything in the digital universe leaves some kind of footprint. There is no absolute privacy when it comes to the digital realm. The physical realm is different. If I mow your lawn and you give me a $50 note in exchange as long as there was not a camera recording the exchange nobody can prove where I got my $50 from and nobody knows I have it. With Bitcoin you can at least prove that Bitcoin moved from one wallet address to another wallet address (hence a lower level of privacy). With physical cash if you take it out of your wallet and give it to me and I put it in my wallet unless there were cameras or an eye witness nobody can prove that the cash changed "wallet addresses".

Who knows perhaps one day in the future Bitcoin will also enter the physical realm. For example some trusted financial institution with public verifiable wallet addresses will have fully collateralized physical tokens (some type of physical coin or something) and each coin will be backed by a certain number of satoshis. And these coins will be redeemable into Bitcoin where if you give the company the physical coin they will send the satoshis to your wallet address. I know this is putting an intermediary in the middle but a lot of the cryptosphere already intermediates into Bitcoin in various ways. In this scenario you would hold the bulk of your Bitcoin in cold storage and you might have a small amount of "physical" bitcoin to cover your occasional spending that you want to be compeltely anonymous.

Its just a thought experiment really.

 

[JayR]

Because the future has not come yet? It’s been 15 years. It will take centuries. Did the first Venetian merchants to use the number 0 envision calculus, relativity or computing? Did the first cave men to use fire imagine cars with internal combustion engines, or rockets taking men to the moon?

Right on. Sometimes a just isn't enough.

 

[RedLagoon]

I always wonder, what if they just flick off the power once everyone is on Bitcoin?

Oh solar panels, sorry...

 

[chance vought]

Who knows perhaps one day in the future Bitcoin will also enter the physical realm. For example some trusted financial institution with public verifiable wallet addresses will have fully collateralized physical tokens (some type of physical coin or something) and each coin will be backed by a certain number of satoshis.

This is the cashu model - except digital. Even the cashu mint (bank) does not know your balance or transactions. No one can see anything as it is blinded signatures, 100% privacy. It is fully reserved and chaumian e-cash, with the advantage of being interoperable with any other mint (a shortcoming of previous dollar based attempts at e-cash where users could only pay each other if they belonged to the same mint.)

And these coins will be redeemable into Bitcoin where if you give the company the physical coin they will send the satoshis to your wallet address. I know this is putting an intermediary in the middle but a lot of the cryptosphere already intermediates into Bitcoin in various ways. In this scenario you would hold the bulk of your Bitcoin in cold storage and you might have a small amount of "physical" bitcoin to cover your occasional spending that you want to be compeltely anonymous.

Its just a thought experiment really.

These are physical “bitcoins” where the amount can be trustlessly verified using the network without revealing the private key.

SATSCARD™ – Put SATSCARD in your pocket

SATSCARD puts a stack of sats in your hand.

satscard.com

OPENDIME™ – World's First Bitcoin Credit Stick Wallet

The Bitcoin Credit Stick

opendime.com

 

[chance vought]

I always wonder, what if they just flick off the power once everyone is on Bitcoin?

Oh solar panels, sorry...

And the fact that it is decentralized.
What if the godless NWO one world government wanted to delete the Bible? They could burn millions of copies, yet there will be many that remained around the world, on shelves, on computers. It is impossible.

Bitcoin isn’t a centralized company with a CEO - it is hundreds of thousands of people with computers, raspberry pi, and miners, in every country on earth, each one capable of propagating the network. Napster was easily killed - BitTorrent wasn’t and can’t be (BitTorrent was probably an inspiration for how bitcoin operates.)

Every individuals bitcoin is safe and sound, stored on every single copy of the time chain. Including on the Blockstream satellite system.

 

[Blade Runner]

Now imagine the world without Bitcoin. Does it look any different whatsoever? Can anyone seriously make that claim?

Have you read anything we've written for the last 50-100 pages? Honestly, this is like talking to a brick wall. Our entire thesis explains this question. We made several serious claims IN DETAIL how different it would look.

Because the future has not come yet? It’s been 15 years. It will take centuries. Did the first Venetian merchants to use the number 0 envision calculus, relativity or computing? Did the first cave men to use fire imagine cars with internal combustion engines, or rockets taking men to the moon?

Exactly. You change the usurious, debasing monetary system that favors the elites (why else would Rothschild, Medici, etc be in that?) and nothing changes? Has Scorpion lost his mind to emotion so much that he's thrown away basic knowledge already known by nearly all on this forum?

Bitcoin is based simply on human belief. It's a popularity token, nothing more.

No, we've told you what it is based on. Your delusion doesn't accept that. And you will pay a price for it, but you'll invent some other belief that assuages that (my prediction, I hope you prove me wrong).

See what is happening here? Anybody can say anything about anything.

You've said that now like 3-4 times and I've got news for you, it's not a novel or even interesting statement. We're not just saying anything about anything. The human endeavor is to make claims and then support them. That's what truth seeking is. Stop saying this kind of nihilistic, illogical nonsense. It's not a reflection of reality. You're literally using the "Well that's just your opinion, man" cope. Stop it.

Nothing makes sense with bitcoin

To you. That's pretty clear. You can't blame us, though.

 

[scorpion]

Have you read anything we've written for the last 50-100 pages? Honestly, this is like talking to a brick wall. Our entire thesis explains this question. We made several serious claims IN DETAIL how different it would look.

The world would look exactly the same without Bitcoin and you know it. Your thesis proves absolutely nothing in this regard. Go ahead and provide these vast details about how much Bitcoin has changed the world. You can't because no such changes have occurred. More people buying it as an appreciating asset is not remotely world-changing on the order of electricity, the internet or the printing press, as has been claimed. Bitcoin could literally disappear off the face of the earth tomorrow and 99% of humanity wouldn't even notice.

 

[Blade Runner]

The world would look exactly the same without Bitcoin and you know it.

Is this an argument?

Of course it wouldn't. Quite the contrary, the world has changed dramatically since people became aware of the perfect money.

 

[Sandalwood Peak]

Hypothetically speaking in order to avoid strong volatility, from fluctuating demand, people would need to get paid in Bitcoin?

In order to get paid in bitcoin there would need to be sufficient reserves?

Once that happens bitcoin can be measured by it's purchasing power and not the exchange rate?

Is this correct and what will this process look like?

I understand bitcoin is suppose to solve currency devaluation/inflation, but how does it ensure fair value of assets and fair compensation for economic output of a person?

 

[scorpion]

Is this an argument?

Of course it wouldn't. Quite the contrary, the world has changed dramatically since people became aware of the perfect money.

You're making an assertion and I'm asking you to provide evidence. What exactly are these vast changes that have taken place?

 

[Australia Sucks]

You're making an assertion and I'm asking you to provide evidence. What exactly are these vast changes that have taken place?

-Political dissidents have been able to retain and transport their assets without having them seized by the government.
-Also political dissidents can receive funding via bitcoin donations.
-Sanctioned countries like Iran have been able to mine bitcoin then sell the bitcoin on market for foreign currencies or trade the bitcoin for goods and services.
-People have been able to send remittance payments to their relatives, friends etc overseas cheaper and faster than traditional means.
-People can now transport vast wealth across borders without governments knowing. Try an escape a country with a suitcase full of cash or gold and see how far you get.
-People at risk of getting debarked can store their capital in bitcoin on a hard wallet and not have to fear debanking.
-People can hold their money in something which doesn’t get eaten away by inflation (in the long term).
-People now have access to a 24/7 global liquid asset. This wasn’t a thing before.

These are just a few examples. The list could go for pages.

 

[scorpion]

-Political dissidents have been able to retain and transport their assets without having them seized by the government.
-Also political dissidents can receive funding via bitcoin donations.
-Sanctioned countries like Iran have been able to mine bitcoin then sell the bitcoin on market for foreign currencies or trade the bitcoin for goods and services.
-People have been able to send remittance payments to their relatives, friends etc overseas cheaper and faster than traditional means.
-People can now transport vast wealth across borders without governments knowing. Try an escape a country with a suitcase full of cash or gold and see how far you get.
-People at risk of getting debarked can store their capital in bitcoin on a hard wallet and not have to fear debanking.
-People can hold their money in something which doesn’t get eaten away by inflation (in the long term).
-People now have access to a 24/7 global liquid asset. This wasn’t a thing before.

This list is utterly laughable when you compare the impact of these things against electricity, the internet, and the other major inventions/discoveries Bitcoin has been compared with. If this is the best case you can make, then Bitcoin's total disappearance would be nothing more than a minor inconvenience for a tiny minority of the world's population.

These are just a few examples. The list could go for pages.

Somehow I doubt that.

 

[chance vought]

Hypothetically speaking in order to avoid strong volatility, from fluctuating demand, people would need to get paid in Bitcoin?

- Is the question: does more people demanding payment in bitcoin reduce its dollar price volatility?
It depends on the rate that people switch to bitcoin…it might even increase its volatility if there is mass adoption above the current rate.

In order to get paid in bitcoin there would need to be sufficient reserves?

It depends. In the current period (10-50 years) while bitcoin is monetizing, it is probably necessary, because its value is increasing rapidly, relative to most companies revenues received in fiat.

In a future where bitcoin is fully monetized as the dominant money, all revenues are received in bitcoin so no reserves are needed.

Once that happens bitcoin can be measured by it's purchasing power and not the exchange rate?

Is this correct and what will this process look like?

I understand bitcoin is suppose to solve currency devaluation/inflation, but how does it ensure fair value of assets and fair compensation for economic output of a person?

Here is how bitcoin could work for salaries, today.
An employee (or union) negotiates a 4 year contract - typically it might include yearly raises of a few percentage points to supposedly compensate for “inflation” (fake 2% CPI).
With enough workers demanding it, here is how I would take a bitcoin salary:

Year 2025 contract. Duration 4 years.
Workers have 3 options:
Accept 100% wages in dollars (say $100/hr)
100% wages denominated in bitcoin
A hybrid of both.

All wages in bitcoin are at a 20% discount to wages in fiat at the time the contract is negotiated as an incentive for the company (cost benefit for them.)

For easy math: bitcoin price in 2025: $100,000
Fiat hourly wage: $100
Bitcoin hourly wage: 80,000 sats ($80)

The company could save nearly 20% of their labor costs if they borrowed fiat, and bought all the bitcoin they would need to pay 4 years of wages at the beginning of the contract.

The workers who opt for bitcoin wages - or even a 90/10 fiat/ bitcoin hybrid, will initially be lower paid than the 100% fiat workers, but will be significantly better paid over 4 years.

In 2029, bitcoin is now $200,000. The bitcoin wage earner is still earning 80,000 sats/hr, but that is now worth $160/hr -
The fiat wage earner is begging for a new contract, because food, housing, and healthcare is skyrocketing compared to his stagnant $100 wages, and the company has adjusted prices to match real inflation of 10%, but the company has plenty of incentive to delay a new wage contract as long as possible because their labor costs in real terms keep decreasing with every year for the fiat workers. Inflation means the workers get paid less every year.

The bitcoin workers are in complete control though - they are the ones who hold the power in negotiations, who could simply reject everything the company offers and keep getting the SAME wage denominated in bitcoin. The company has to offer more to get them to accept any kind of pay cut.

 

[bubs]

I read yesterday that the Bitcoin jump in value was due to a few mega-investors (ie Blackrock), putting money in. Is this trend concerning to us nickel and dime investors? I feel like these big investors could do the whole “pump and dump” scenario wiping out wealth of the minions while they profit.

 

[chance vought]

I read yesterday that the Bitcoin jump in value was due to a few mega-investors (ie Blackrock), putting money in. Is this trend concerning to us nickel and dime investors? I feel like these big investors could do the whole “pump and dump” scenario wiping out wealth of the minions while they profit.

Are you borrowing against all your bitcoin or buying and selling it for short term fiat profits? You should be concerned.

Are you holding your bitcoin in cold storage, and dollar cost averaging with every paycheck so you can retire in 10 years? Nothing to worry about.

Everyone who has EVER BOUGHT BITCOIN at any time in history, is in profit - provided they never sold it. Selling bitcoin is when your wealth gets wiped out.

Another point worth making: bitcoin is a tool...a better tool. Its never too late to adopt a better tool.

Is it too late to adopt electricity?
The automobile?
The internet?
Is it too late to adopt running water?

No matter when you decide to use a better tool, your life gets better.

In 1996, an internet presence for a business was a useful tool, for some. In 2025, an internet presence is a necessity.

Bitcoin is the same…early adopters benefit more, but everyone benefits no matter when they choose to adopt it.