What foods are prohibited to eat in Orthodox Christianity

GoodShepherd

GoodShepherd

Orthodox
Heritage
I come from a protestant background and although there werent any specific diets we had to follow I have been following the diet God gave Moses in the scriptures for over a decade now, so no pork, shrimp, shell fish, rabbit etc etc, Occasionally I would eat some pork or rabbit if its served to me when out or if theres nothing else to eat I will eat the items listed but just wanted to find out if I should drop this rule since becoming an Orthodox Christian? Are there any specific diets I need to be aware of?
 
Thefinalepic said:
I just know that meat/oil/dairy/eggs are meant to not be eaten on Wednesday and Friday. Not sure about any restrictions to diet other than this.
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Thanks, Im aware of that one, I keep the Sunday morning one of no eating from midnight until after the liturgy but Im still struggling with the Wednesday and Friday one as Im not the cook at home my wife is and she isnt Orthodox, I dont drink any wine on Wednesday and Friday though but I need to make a plan to observe these days better. I do keep the big fasts though Im actually looking forward to the lent that starts on 15th November.
 
About half of the calendar year, Orthodox Christians fast from meat, dairy, eggs, wine, oil, fish, with variations depending on the specific fast (i.e. during Lent, fish is only allowed twice, on Palm Sunday and Annunciation; during Nativity fast, fish, wine, and oil are allowed on a lot of days). Besides that, we are not to consume animal blood or foods sacrificed to idols, as laid out at the first Church Council recorded in the Book of Acts. Starting out, consult with your priest in terms of how to start fasting, how strict to be, etc.. Most priests will not advise those new to the Faith to take on the full-blown fast, but again, consult with your priest.
 
There is no need to keep the Mosaic laws on food. That was part of the specific covenant God had with the ancient Israelites. In the Gospel, Jesus says those laws are unnecessary now that there is a new covenant.

As others mentioned, avoid blood and talk to your priest about fasting. My priest only told me to abstain from meat, dairy and eggs on Wednesdays and Fridays.
 
johnofcleveland said:
About half of the calendar year, Orthodox Christians fast from meat, dairy, eggs, wine, oil, fish, with variations depending on the specific fast (i.e. during Lent, fish is only allowed twice, on Palm Sunday and Annunciation; during Nativity fast, fish, wine, and oil are allowed on a lot of days). Besides that, we are not to consume animal blood or foods sacrificed to idols, as laid out at the first Church Council recorded in the Book of Acts. Starting out, consult with your priest in terms of how to start fasting, how strict to be, etc.. Most priests will not advise those new to the Faith to take on the full-blown fast, but again, consult with your priest.
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Thanks for that, the reason Im asking on this forum is because I dont have much time with my priest maybe just a few brief minute once every few weeks but hoping that will change soon, so I did both lents but started the nativity one last year late because I only found out about it a few days later but I didnt know I had to consult with my priest first, I did the full fast, only problem I had was sometimes if I arrived home late and forgot to have food prepared then it became a problem as I turned to foods that werent so healthy and I think that might have affected me so I need to be more careful next time
 
GoodShepherd said:
Yeah I stay away from blood, so what about meats that are halaal im guessing thats food sacrificed to idols too though?
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These are important things to chat about in Orthodoxy if we want to faithmax haha.

There’s two schools of thought on halal and it all depends on on what you believe. It all hinges on Allah’s identity.

My thought is probably more common. Allah is a bad take on God the Father. The first person of the trinity. Not an idol. Islam has the father but they can’t reach the father because the only way to the father is through the son. Islam slams into a wall with John 14. Therefore Allah isn’t an idol but a non triune take on God. It just means the lord in Arabic. But they don’t have The Son so their faith is incomplete. This means halal is an empty ritual to God the Father that doesn’t mean anything because God the Son already made the animal clean. Remember - “Peter, slaughter, eat” in Acts. So chow down. If Allah is an idol then we can’t go to the Kosher deli. The Jews have a similar take on God the Father.

Now here is the other school of thought which to me seems more fantastical but I’m open to it if I can find some good Orthodox sources. I can’t find any. It mostly seems like it is popular in evangelical circles - but there’s the thought Allah is a moon god mod who had statues in the pre Islamic Middle East. He was just one of the many gods of the Kabbah and Mohammad elevated him. If this is true - then no halal for you.

As usual ask your priest or seek some guidance from a monastery where they think about this stuff all day.
 
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GoodShepherd said:
Thanks for that, the reason Im asking on this forum is because I dont have much time with my priest maybe just a few brief minute once every few weeks but hoping that will change soon, so I did both lents but started the nativity one last year late because I only found out about it a few days later but I didnt know I had to consult with my priest first, I did the full fast, only problem I had was sometimes if I arrived home late and forgot to have food prepared then it became a problem as I turned to foods that werent so healthy and I think that might have affected me so I need to be more careful next time
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For what it's worth, when I first started fasting, I did the full fasts too, and continued in this way for maybe 3 years in a row, thinking all was good, until the end of my last full Christmas fast, where I became quite sick for having fasted beyond my strength and severely weakened my body. All that fasting over the years had caught up with me, and I had nobody, not even my priest, to tell me that I could or even should have done things differently.

Thankfully, at around that time, I was just starting to form a relationship with a monastery and was taught that many people today, especially, who are used to eating well at least 3 times a day, can't just simply start doing full orthodox fasts and expect to get away with it unscathed. All of this came from a monk who, when he was younger, also got seriously sick from prematurely fasting too strictly and who dealt with people like that all the time.

He put me on a much lighter fast for Christmas and Easter and I still stick to it to this day - fasting not being one of my gifts, especially not after the damage it (prematurely fasting too strictly) did to me, the effects of which I still carry around with me today. And, besides, fasting only according to one's personal needs is very much an Orthodox thing, there being saints even who couldn't fast at all.

This, of course, isn't to say that any of this will necessarily apply to you, but I thought I'd share it anyway because it sheds light on a part of Orthodoxy that won't always be clear to new comers.

What's great about Orthodoxy is that, on the one hand, it ultimately maintains the universal high standard of fasting, while on the other, allows for individual needs or abilities, even if that's just until they've slowly developed 'fasting fitness' and can perhaps do the full fasts without negative effects.

Definitely worth discussing with your priest, then, to see what advice he can give in this area.
 
analyst_green said:
There is no need to keep the Mosaic laws on food. That was part of the specific covenant God had with the ancient Israelites. In the Gospel, Jesus says those laws are unnecessary now that there is a new covenant.

As others mentioned, avoid blood and talk to your priest about fasting. My priest only told me to abstain from meat, dairy and eggs on Wednesdays and Fridays.
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KulturedKaveman said:
These are important things to chat about in Orthodoxy if we want to faithmax haha.

There’s two schools of thought on halal and it all depends on on what you believe. It all hinges on Allah’s identity.

My thought is probably more common. Allah is a bad take on God the Father. The first person of the trinity. Not an idol. Islam has the father but they can’t reach the father because the only way to the father is through the son. Islam slams into a wall with John 14. Therefore Allah isn’t an idol but a non triune take on God. It just means the lord in Arabic. But they don’t have The Son so their faith is incomplete. This means halal is an empty ritual to God the Father that doesn’t mean anything because God the Son already made the animal clean. Remember - “Peter, slaughter, eat” in Acts. So chow down. If Allah is an idol then we can’t go to the Kosher deli. The Jews have a similar take on God the Father.

Now here is the other school of thought which to me seems more fantastical but I’m open to it if I can find some good Orthodox sources. I can’t find any. It mostly seems like it is popular in evangelical circles - but there’s the thought Allah is a moon god mod who had statues in the pre Islamic Middle East. He was just one of the many gods of the Kabbah and Mohammad elevated him. If this is true - then no halal for you.

As usual ask your priest or seek some guidance from a monastery where they think about this stuff all day.
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When I think about what you just said I dont think I can accept the first part about Islam having God the Father as the "revelation" mohammad got was from a so called angel, it wasnt like the old testament Hebrews a tradition that was passed down by Moses and the prophets who met with God and who the Holy Spirit spoke through, i cant put Mohammad on that same level at all, regarding that part in the book of Acts the food was just an analogy used to show Peter that the gentiles are no longer left out the vision kill and eat was not about the actual diet as the intepritation to the vision is explained in the book of Acts quite clearly. I will ask my priest what he thinks about halaal meat and see what his take on it is.
 
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Vasily Martian said:
For what it's worth, when I first started fasting, I did the full fasts too, and continued in this way for maybe 3 years in a row, thinking all was good, until the end of my last full Christmas fast, where I became quite sick for having fasted beyond my strength and severely weakened my body. All that fasting over the years had caught up with me, and I had nobody, not even my priest, to tell me that I could or even should have done things differently.

Thankfully, at around that time, I was just starting to form a relationship with a monastery and was taught that many people today, especially, who are used to eating well at least 3 times a day, can't just simply start doing full orthodox fasts and expect to get away with it unscathed. All of this came from a monk who, when he was younger, also got seriously sick from prematurely fasting too strictly and who dealt with people like that all the time.

He put me on a much lighter fast for Christmas and Easter and I still stick to it to this day - fasting not being one of my gifts, especially not after the damage it (prematurely fasting too strictly) did to me, the effects of which I still carry around with me today. And, besides, fasting only according to one's personal needs is very much an Orthodox thing, there being saints even who couldn't fast at all.

This, of course, isn't to say that any of this will necessarily apply to you, but I thought I'd share it anyway because it sheds light on a part of Orthodoxy that won't always be clear to new comers.

What's great about Orthodoxy is that, on the one hand, it ultimately maintains the universal high standard of fasting, while on the other, allows for individual needs or abilities, even if that's just until they've slowly developed 'fasting fitness' and can perhaps do the full fasts without negative effects.

Definitely worth discussing with your priest, then, to see what advice he can give in this area.
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I have never heard about this part of fasting I will ask my priest and find out. I did suffer a bit physically during the great lents, I lost too much weight in my opinion im already not a fat person, it was also difficult as Im married with small kids so its a very busy stage of my life, the cares of this world, and Im the only Orthodox in my family so its like an extra burden ontop of all that but that suffering did bring humility during that time which is good, it definately would have helped if I was maybe spending more time in prayer and at church more during those times to gain strength but sometimes it just not possible its out of my control, last lent fast I briefly spoke to my priest and he did say it was ok for me to have a LITTLE wine on the weekends but that was about it
 
GoodShepherd said:
I dont think I can accept the first part about Islam having God the Father as the "revelation" mohammad got was from a so called angel
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He didn’t get revelation from an angel or like the Old Testament prophets - he got it from his Christian wife 😂. He was a caravan driver in the 600s Middle East and was very familiar with Christianity of both Orthodox and Arian varieties as well as the Mizarahim Jewish tribes. He pulled a lot of concepts from the religions he would have known. My conclusion on him is he either got the worst catechism on the planet or was essentially a cult leader whose thing blew up into a major world religion.

Like I said, the idea that Allah is not a bad revelation on god the father and in fact pagan, I would accept more if there was more proof. In the Iconoclastic controversy St. John of Damascus was living in the Islamic world. That’s how he became a big defender of imagery in worship. He was able to operate independently of the Empire - they were having a moment.

St. John of Damascus writes extensively about Islam. He calls Mohammad ridiculous but never calls him a worshiper of a false god from what I understand. If the moon god thing was true wouldn’t Middle Eastern saints like St. John waste no time jumping on that in their works? That’s just my take.

I would be interested to know what your priest says about halal btw.
 
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You should speak with your priest first and foremost about fasting and what is expected. Don't try to go it alone, or you will fail, especially if you are not Orthodox. As a matter of fact, unless you are a catechumen, there is no expectation to fast at all. Fasting is a spiritual endeavor, and not brute force of will. Additionally, each jurisdiction has slight variations in how they fast, and some churches follow the old calendar, while others follow the new calendar.
 
What happens if all the meat in the shops is actually sacrificed to idols and we just didn't know 😳

I actually wouldn't be that surprised these days
 
You always eat what your host serves you.

Meat and fish dairy/alcohol are supposed to be a abstained from on Weds and Fridday...depending on tradition (differs in Russian vs Greek vs Antiochian Traditions slightly)

If you're working and unable to keep the fast... It's not the end of the world.

The devil doesn't fast.

The point is that giving up some luxury is a good physical manifestation of pious sacrifice of the body and desires for Christ's Church.
 
Lawrence87 said:
What happens if all the meat in the shops is actually sacrificed to idols and we just didn't know 😳

I actually wouldn't be that surprised these days
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I don't know the answer for sure, but I think we're able to just take whatever is on offer and eat it without asking questions, so long as it's not clear to us that the food has been sacrificed to an idol. If this is true, I would of course suggest that every Orthodox first does the sign of the cross over the food and themselves. (For those who don't know, blessing things, including food, is done up, down, left, right, and can even be done with one's eyes).

For me personally, given the amount of spiritual crap that's floating around out there, not much enters my mouth unless I've blessed it first.

Regarding halal, I've looked into this and, for the most part, Orthodox seem not to be too concerned. My priest and a strict hieromonk placed a lot of faith in doing the sign of the cross over it, the PoshRedneck said avoid it if you know it's halal, but otherwise just bless everything you eat and don't worry, and Frs Peter Heers and John Whiteford are still getting back to me after several requests made to Fr Peter and one to Fr John long ago to be the ones to start making some open statements about it. This silence, combined with what's the general silence of the Church, combined with the little that is online about it, combined with what I've said above, suggests to me, as I've said, that halal might not be much of an issue, especially if you don't know it's halal but have blessed it.

Regarding the Church's prohibition on blood, I'd love to get some folks' thoughts on undercooked meat. From my research, it's not meant to even be blood that's in the meat after it's been slaughtered and bled, but something else that just looks like it. After all, if blood was left in there, it would apparently go off a lot sooner. Something that Frs John Whiteford and Stephen Freeman have put up online seems to support this view, and the same hieromonk mentioned above, who is sick and must eat meat, eats his meat a bit pink. My priest has also said don't worry about undercooked meat. With that, I still make an effort to only eat well done meat, but I do try and relax if there are pink bits in places. How do others see it? Does the blood prohibition mean only drained blood or things that contain it, like blood sausage, or do you think it goes further than that?
 
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Here is a helpful post by Fr. John Whiteford on the question of blood. He cites various councils and canons (including the original Jerusalem Counsel described in Acts), as well as some commentary from St. Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain.

A summary of his (Fr. John's) conclusion is: You may not eat blood that has been specifically drained from the animal, or meat from an animal that was improperly killed, such as strangled, or roadkill, i.e. the blood was not properly drained from the meat. However, residual blood that is incidentally released from meat when cooked, such as juices from a steak, are not prohibited.

 
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