US National Debt Thread

Thomas More

Thomas More

Protestant
Heirloom
The US National Debt is going up $1 trillion every 100 days. It reached $32 trillion on 6/15/23, $33 trillion on 9/15/23, and $34 trillion on 1/4/24!


It appears that a big reason for the rapid growth is the increase in interest rates. The interest on the debt used to be only 1-2%, or only a few $100 billion a year. Now the interest is higher, and of course the balance is ever higher, so interest is running $1 trillion a year. We're borrowing to cover out of control spending, and borrowing to cover all the interest as well.

The interest cost will continue to climb sharply. Much of the debt is held in the form of long term treasury notes, which were originally issued at low interest rates. However, a portion of those notes come to maturity each month, and then new notes are issued to replace them, at current higher rates. In time, the average interest will grow to 4-5% and beyond. That will soon take us to $2 trillion/year in interest, which would be 5% of $40 trillion. That will come in 2025.

The debt has begun spiralling out of control. We are approaching the point where "that which cannot continue, won't".

This thread is for news and discussion as this situation plays out.
 
I searched to see the estimated deficit for 2024, but all I found were articles projecting it would be $1.6 to $1.8 trillion. According to the links Bird posted, it's over that already, only 5 months into the year (the fiscal year for the US government started Oct. 1, 2023). At this rate, it will be over $4 trillion by Sept. 30.

I think they are doing some funny accounting, where the national debt will go up by $4 trillion, but somehow the deficit for this fiscal year will be counted (and reported) as a much smaller figure.

Edit: I did some more searching, and in general, I keep seeing smaller deficit and interest expense numbers being shown. The media is systematically lying about this, but they apparently can't hide the total debt number. The treasury.gov website says it only cost $357 billion to maintain the debt, but it also shows the current average interest for the debt is 2.97%. 2.97% of $34.5 trillion is $1.02 trillion in interest. These kinds of misleading numbers show up everywhere when I search on the topic.
 
Last edited:
Thomas More said:
The treasury.gov website says it only cost $357 billion to maintain the debt, but it also shows the current average interest for the debt is 2.97%. 2.97% of $34.5 trillion is $1.02 trillion in interest.
Click to expand...
Yes, I've read in multiple places over the last 6 months that the 2024 interest payments on debt will be 1 Tril by the end of the year.

The reason I think something might happen here in March/April is because the Fed might have to break policy otherwise due to this factor alone. That is, regardless of what their monetary policy desire is, the Treasury can't afford 5.5% interest and they don't have that much time to not lower rates. Putting it all together, what I think you'll see is a BTFP runoff, then a "crack" in the system within a month, and then the lowering of rates. Like 2020, everyone will say it was reason X or Y but the truth is we all know what's been going on, and that some other "reason" eventually became the "sell" reason that people can pin it on.
 
Friendly reminder that debt does not necessarily have to end in collapse. This is because all debt is owed to someone or some corporate entity;

Either find the person it's owed to, and arrest that person and force them to repudiate the debt, or dissolve the corporation the debt is owed to.

Naturally, whoever was supposed to collect on the debt gets absolutely destroyed, but it's a small price to pay to save a nation. I learned about this method from a priest of mine (now retired), who explained that in the Middle Ages, sometimes, when a King owed a lot of money, usually they just killed the bankers and got a fresh start. So this method should work.
 
Samseau said:
Friendly reminder that debt does not necessarily have to end in collapse. This is because all debt is owed to someone or some corporate entity;

Either find the person it's owed to, and arrest that person and force them to repudiate the debt, or dissolve the corporation the debt is owed to.

Naturally, whoever was supposed to collect on the debt gets absolutely destroyed, but it's a small price to pay to save a nation. I learned about this method from a priest of mine (now retired), who explained that in the Middle Ages, sometimes, when a King owed a lot of money, usually they just killed the bankers and got a fresh start. So this method should work.
Click to expand...
Things like this have definitely been done. I've read of kings doing as you say. However, I think the western governments will probably have to be overthrown by a revolution before a debt repudiation like this can occur. At some point, this will be unavoidable when the debt becomes impossible to repay.
 
How do you collect a debt from someone bigger and stronger than you?

I honestly don't think the debt thing is as nearly a massive issue as just about anything else going on.
 
Samseau said:
when a King owed a lot of money, usually they just killed the bankers and got a fresh start. So this method should work.
Click to expand...
Why is the USA (and the West in general) in irrecompensible debt? Because of illegal and un-Christian usury meted out by a jewish banking cabal. We all know this. The West needs to do what Iceland did to the Brits and tell the bankers to pound sand and default on the debt. This banking cabal doesn't have an army. Who are they going to attack, or will they whip us with chickens? Arrest the bankers, shut them down, make an act of Congress to dissolve the Federal Reserve Act, and start printing our own money in-country, and run by Christians. Shut the jews out. There is no need for collapse. This is jewish media fear pr0n. We need to think logically and rationally, and not with emotions.
 
Christos_NIKA said:
Why is the USA (and the West in general) in irrecompensible debt? Because of illegal and un-Christian usury meted out by a jewish banking cabal. We all know this. The West needs to do what Iceland did to the Brits and tell the bankers to pound sand and default on the debt. This banking cabal doesn't have an army. Who are they going to attack, or will they whip us with chickens? Arrest the bankers, shut them down, make an act of Congress to dissolve the Federal Reserve Act, and start printing our own money in-country, and run by Christians. Shut the jews out. There is no need for collapse. This is jewish media fear pr0n. We need to think logically and rationally, and not with emotions.
Click to expand...

Could you elaborate more on what happened in Iceland?
 
Samseau said:
Friendly reminder that debt does not necessarily have to end in collapse. This is because all debt is owed to someone or some corporate entity;

Either find the person it's owed to, and arrest that person and force them to repudiate the debt, or dissolve the corporation the debt is owed to.
Click to expand...
Most of the debt is owed to other central banks. Who also sell fake debt to the US central banks.
It's all a charade, but at the end of the day it allows them to keep the musical chairs game going.

They also do these fake jewish things called "repurchase agreements" where they can kinda sorta pretend they "sold" debt because a certain central bank technically AGREED to make a purchase, but didn't really do so yet, and then the US central bank will reciprocate and pretend to be obligated to also buy debt back, but then there are additional conditions on THAT repurchase, and it's all just like the derivatives market where the actual thing that is being traded is only a fraction of the derivative option trades.

Technically the #1 biggest holder is US federal agencies other than the central bank itself, which is just a form of that same Jewish shenanigans where they pretend "Oh the Treasury doesn't have this money, social security administration has a BOND that says it is owed this amount from another agency" but it's all a giant shell game. But the point is if you cancelled the debt, then things like Social Security would fall apart, because they rely on this fake scheme to make their monthly payouts to pensioners, since there is no real money in the vault to do that with.

I agree that the correct thing to do is to repudiate or cancel, but that is not going to happen because that would mean, for one, that social security pensions would drop to something like $3 (and it would have similar effects on the health care system, other agencies, state governments, etc.). Of course that outcome WILL occur at some point, but it's much easier to keep the scam going and In The Long Run We Are All Dead.


The derivatives market is, in a word, gigantic—often estimated at over $1 quadrillion on the high end
Some market analysts even place the size of the market at more than 10 times that of the total world gross domestic product (GDP).
Click to expand...

Most of the world is not leveraged; much of the first world is. So we are looking at a ratio far higher than 10 : 1 for America if debt was cancelled and we have to go back to actually paying for things. That just isn't really feasible at this point. Or to put it another way, the people would gladly accept whatever was needed to prevent a 90% decline in their wealth and way of life. Dictatorship, Invasion, whatever.

9278_1_derivatives_world_gdp.jpg


Maybe it could have been stopped in 2000, but once you have gambled so highly the only option is to keep bluffing.
 
Samseau said:
Friendly reminder that debt does not necessarily have to end in collapse. This is because all debt is owed to someone or some corporate entity;

Either find the person it's owed to, and arrest that person and force them to repudiate the debt, or dissolve the corporation the debt is owed to.

Naturally, whoever was supposed to collect on the debt gets absolutely destroyed, but it's a small price to pay to save a nation. I learned about this method from a priest of mine (now retired), who explained that in the Middle Ages, sometimes, when a King owed a lot of money, usually they just killed the bankers and got a fresh start. So this method should work.
Click to expand...
In ancient Babylon they had a debt jubilee every 50 years.

One problem with what you are saying is that it’s not only faceless entities that own all the debt. What happens to all the corporate pension funds who own a lot of government debt? Will those pensioners get their retirement savings wiped out and be unable to retire?
 
The debt will be cancelled via inflation. "Soft default." The bond market will be supported, which requires sacrificing the currency.

This is currently happening in Japan, (and here with BTFP) but it is the same playbook for every Fiat currency.

In this country it happened in the 1940s, high inflation/currency devaluation to reduce the national debt.
 
You cannot hide the raw data



Samseau said:
Friendly reminder that debt does not necessarily have to end in collapse. This is because all debt is owed to someone or some corporate entity;

Either find the person it's owed to, and arrest that person and force them to repudiate the debt, or dissolve the corporation the debt is owed to.

Naturally, whoever was supposed to collect on the debt gets absolutely destroyed, but it's a small price to pay to save a nation. I learned about this method from a priest of mine (now retired), who explained that in the Middle Ages, sometimes, when a King owed a lot of money, usually they just killed the bankers and got a fresh start. So this method should work.
Click to expand...

If you want to kill or jail any USA bond holders, or just the ones holding the largest amount of bonds?

I’d rather we just kill all the lawyers
 
Last edited:
chance vought said:
The debt will be cancelled via inflation. "Soft default." The bond market will be supported, which requires sacrificing the currency.

This is currently happening in Japan, (and here with BTFP) but it is the same playbook for every Fiat currency.

In this country it happened in the 1940s, high inflation/currency devaluation to reduce the national debt.
Click to expand...
The question is "how soft" and what is the social ramification? We aren't in 1940s euro/christian Kansas (America) anymore, Dorothy.
 
chance vought said:
To get the debt down to 80% GDP would require 100% inflation rate for 1 year or 10% for 7 years. So far we’ve had maybe 1 year at 10%. So there will be much longer and or much higher inflation on the way, to keep the bonds from imploding.
Click to expand...
The problem with raising inflation to shrink the relatuve value of the debt is that it drives up interest rates, leading to an even faster growing debt. They're well into vicious circle territory.

I expect prices to at least double over the next five years, but I think at the end of that the debt will be an even bigger problem than now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top