The Iran and Wider Middle East Thread

[LaAguilaNegra]

This thread is dedicated to the events and developments in the MENA region that fall outside the scope of the existing Hamas-Israel and Red Sea thread.

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The US-Turkey F16 deal is finally concluded. After the Swedish (and Finnish) NATO ratification the sale of 40 F16s and upgrades for their existing fleet was approved. F35s will likely follow. To balance out the power equilibrium Greece was sold 40 F35s as well.



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Iran has re-commenced its military deliveries to the Burhani junta in Sudan. Iran had very amical relations with al Bashir but after the 2019 coup they lost their position. The Burhani junta is currently losing ground against the UAE backed RSF, which have been gaining lots of support from African leaders recently.

The Burhani junta is also supported by Ukraine, Egypt and Turkey .





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One of France's lasts allies Chad will soon jump ship. Chad's Idriss Deby traveled to Moscow and will in the coming months re-calibrate his country's foreign policy.



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The SOHR alleges Turkey's Syrian proxy the Sultan Murad Brigade (and others) have relocated to Niger and Burkina Faso. This usually means trouble, as they are Ankara's preferred cannon fodder. Official explanation for the transfer is the fight against ISIS. Previously they were in Nagorno Karabakh, Libya and Syria.

 

[God's lonely asperger]

I was discussing this with my father earlier today. Is there any chance Turkey could get in the EU? I've heard this on rumors a lot. On one hand, it would speed up the great replacement by a thousand, but on the other, that would speed up the Muslim conundrum with the great replacement. My father's argument was that they were too Muslim to be in Europe, from an EU standpoint. The Greek and Cyprus conflicts are also a deterrent.

You really can't tell with the elites. I'm very curious with how the Muslim conundrum unfolds as the Middle East shits itself more and more every month, carrying refugees with it, who usually bolt it to Germany and Sweden for economic reasons. I would mildly respect them more if they weren't so shameless in their rush for the richest countries instead of a more humble country. They travel from country to country in trains yet ONLY go to Germany, it's absurd.

 

[Aldebaran]

I would mildly respect them more if they weren't so shameless in their rush for the richest countries instead of a more humble country. They travel from country to country in trains yet ONLY go to Germany, it's absurd.

Why wouldn't they? What would you do?

 

[God's lonely asperger]

Why wouldn't they? What would you do?

First of all, and the biggest problem, is that Germany is not a Muslim country. If I somehow was a Muslim, I would rather not colonize their country by filling it with mosques. If Eastern Europe was somehow rich, I wouldn't want to abuse a hypothetical war in my country to fill theirs with Catholic or Protestant churches. Worse example, but you get the point.

Second is that it is quite honestly that, colonizing. They would rather invade whatever country has the biggest dollars than to integrate to a country with similar culture and religion to theirs. See the problem in this? This is a trend in leftist Brazilians going to Portugal to "colonize" the Portuguese by bringing the favela to them while living in tents because they can't afford Lisbon rent, neither will they work.

 

[DeusLuxMeaEst]

Edit: this post seems better for the border thread so will move it there.

 

[LaAguilaNegra]

I was discussing this with my father earlier today. Is there any chance Turkey could get in the EU? I've heard this on rumors a lot. On one hand, it would speed up the great replacement by a thousand, but on the other, that would speed up the Muslim conundrum with the great replacement. My father's argument was that they were too Muslim to be in Europe, from an EU standpoint. The Greek and Cyprus conflicts are also a deterrent.

You really can't tell with the elites. I'm very curious with how the Muslim conundrum unfolds as the Middle East ***** itself more and more every month, carrying refugees with it, who usually bolt it to Germany and Sweden for economic reasons. I would mildly respect them more if they weren't so shameless in their rush for the richest countries instead of a more humble country. They travel from country to country in trains yet ONLY go to Germany, it's absurd.

Not as long as Erdogan is in charge. If Imamoglu would have won the election yesteryear the situation might have been different.

The reasons are mentioned by you already. Erdogan is not very well liked on a personal level by the EU elites - he is too socially conservative and geopolitically independent. He's basically been blackmailing the EU since 2015. There are also many that think Turkey is too big anyway - if admitted Turkey would become the EU's number 1 in terms of population instantly.

There are other hurdles, like the Cyprus/Greece veto, the judicial (in)dependance, the Kurdish problem (many European lefties sympathize with the PKK) etc.

 

[Aldebaran]

First of all, and the biggest problem, is that Germany is not a Muslim country. If I somehow was a Muslim, I would rather not colonize their country by filling it with mosques.

Germany can hardly be considered a country. It's more an occupied territory. But that is besides the point.

If I had to flee to a foreign country of my own choice, I would go to the country where I would get the best benefits and support. So would everyone.

 

[stadtaffe]

the Kurdish problem

What's the deal with that region called 'Kurdistan' that wants to be independent?

I met a few of them when I was living in Germany, they seemed an agreeable lot, although it was just a small sample size.. Don't know much about them except that some of them drive taxis and work in restaurants in Germany.

 

[God's lonely asperger]

But that is besides the point.

Precisely. Anyone with knowledge of German or WW2 history, and a bit of an open mind can tell the allies would not suffice with letting it rise up again, as it was a fool me twice situation. But that is besides the point. And a buzzword used in almost any right wing German geopolitical discussion. People still live there, and the natives are not Muslim Somalis.

If I had to flee to a foreign country of my own choice, I would go to the country where I would get the best benefits and support. So would everyone.

Please don't apply this to everyone, and especially on a Christian forum. Material benefits are just that, material, and support is very relative. Support seems like it fits for "everyone", but then you remember the support is blood money from Nordic countries and their absurd bleeding hearts, which are their plight in the game of the grand replacement. Germany objectively has better welfare than European countries without this conundrum of jobless NEET natives and jobless mugging Somalis. It is blood money to flee Somalia, do nothing, and live in luxury while an unluckier native is homeless. A lot of the migrants are aware of this, from years of staying and planning in general.

Again, to put myself in the shoes of a Somali, I wouldn't just bolt it to Germany, at least with my knowledge of the migrant crisis, which I'm not even a migrant at all. I'd look for either some friendly borough for said minority group, ideally without shootings (Braga, in Portugal, for Brazilians, and some other ethnic enclaves in America), or a decent Muslim and.. similar to Somali culture.. country.. in Europe (kind of hard, maybe Bosnia or Albania).

I am not a Somali and neither are you, a presumably European guy. Say it's reverse day and your Western European nation collapses while Mozambique has a refugee crisis from Europe, and they're somehow sympathetic enough to give you welfare and an objectively better economy than modern day Croatia or Albania. Do you go there, or do you claim to want to go to a reverse day African nation that is identical to modern day Croatia, except somehow also retained European culture in a more hard-working manner and without many race issues.

I could write more, and cite more examples, but this is the crux of it, and this is already off-topic enough. Feel free to reply with your honest thoughts however, but I don't think I can put myself in an analogy of Somali shoes more than I have here.

 

[Aldebaran]

Let's say you have a family and children.

Where would you go:

The place that offers free housing for your family, free healthcare, free money, free tuition and education + also has a large community of expats that you can socialize with.

OR somewhere where you would have to live in a giant refugee camp with no prospects of a better life.

If you believe that it is somehow "Christian" to choose the second option, then that's on you. Don't blame migrants for wanting a better life. Blame Western governments for incentivising them to come here, so that the giant corporations can have their cheap labour while also undermining national unity.

 

[LaAguilaNegra]

What's the deal with that region called 'Kurdistan' that wants to be independent?

I met a few of them when I was living in Germany, they seemed an agreeable lot, although it was just a small sample size.. Don't know much about them except that some of them drive taxis and work in restaurants in Germany.

According to Turkey they don't have a Kurdish problem, but a PKK problem instead.

Most of the modern states in the Middle East find their ethnogenesis in the aftermath the First World War. Borders were crafted by the Brits and French after the Ottomans pulled out after their defeat in WW1 and their Empire collapsed. The Brits and French had their own spheres of influence. Obviously some things have changed since then but in general the situation remains the same.



For some reason the Kurds were not granted their own State like for instance the Syrians, Kuwaiti and Iraqis were. Instead the Kurdish homeland was divided between four major countries - Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria.

The closest Kurds on Turkey have been to having their own homeland was 1920 when the Treaty of Sevres was drawn up. Allegedly a Kurdish state under French patronage was considered. However the Turks under Ataturk refused to sign - what followed instead was the Turkish War of Independence and the defeat of the French, Armenians, Kurds, Greeks and more. Another round of ethnic cleansing and genocide aimed at Pontic Greeks, Armenians and Asssyrians occurred in this period. In 1923 the Treaty of Lausanne was signed which encompasses contemporary Turkey.

Proposed Treaty of Sevres


Not sure how strong the separatist sentiments is now - especially in Iran Kurds seem quite incorporated in the political structure. Persians and Kurds are both Indo-Europeans. In Turkey, Iraq and Syria there seems to be much more animosity. There is a lot of bad blood due to excesses and repression.

Nusaybin, 2015-2016. After the YPG takeover of Northern Syria PKK fighters started infiltrating Turkey from Syria. The Turkish military launched a campaign and destroyed a dozen Turkish/Kurdish cities in the process. Stuff like this creates a lot of resentment.


Kurds anno 2024 are divided on the political spectrum. Many hate each other with a passion - in Iraq there has been a KDP-PUK Kurdish civil war for a decade. In Turkey many conservative Kurds actually vote Erdogan because they are against the commie PKK. The Islamist Hezbollah (not the one in Lebanon) and communist PKK fight each other regularly. In Iraq and Syria Kurdish parties have some form of autonomy. In Syria the PKK/YPG controls the Northern part of Syria (result of the Syrian Civil War), and in Iraq the KRG was established after the US invasion in 1991.

 

[stadtaffe]

Kurdish problem

Do we need it the "Kurdish problem"? Just call them Kurdish separatists or Kurdish nationalists..

So the globalists actually support them, that is interesting, just like they supported the new Kosovo state. I wonder why.. It's probably this:

Kurdistan Region is estimated to contain around 45 billion barrels (7.2×109 m3) of oil, making it the sixth largest reserve in the world. Extraction of these reserves began in 2007.

source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan

 

[Thomas More]

Do we need it the "Kurdish problem"? Just call them Kurdish separatists or Kurdish nationalists..

So the globalists actually support them, that is interesting, just like they supported the new Kosovo state. I wonder why.. It's probably this:

source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan

I'd say it's fair to call it the Kurdish Problem. They are a people who are being separated from each other with the goal of assimilating them into Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran, such that the eventually disappear. They seem to have a pretty strong ethnic self identity, and they don't want this. As the post above shows, there are separatist groups in all of these four countries fighting at some level for some kind of Kurdish unity, although they can be very fractious in their approach to this goal.

I was surprised when I looked up Kurdish history, and found their historic roots only go back about 500 years. They don't have a national identity going back to the bronze age as many other peoples in that area do. However, even if they are a young ethnic group, they seem to have a strong self identity, and there is a long list of conflicts in which they are or have been involved. I think maybe they have genetic and cultural roots going back much farther, even if the specific Kurdish identity is newer.

I think there is an argument that they deserve to exist as a people and as nation, as many claim for the Palestinians or the Jews. At this time I don't see much of a chance they will ever achieve this, so it's likely to be an ongoing problem for decades at least.

The story is similar for Baluchistan, in that they are a people without a nation, scattered across three modern nation states. They also have a history of insurgency, and will most likely never have their own nation state.

 

[LaAguilaNegra]

Do we need it the "Kurdish problem"? Just call them Kurdish separatists or Kurdish nationalists..

So the globalists actually support them, that is interesting, just like they supported the new Kosovo state. I wonder why.. It's probably this:

source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan

There are always actors and agents interested in aligning with the Kurds to create division or further interests. For instance Erdogan is on very good terms with Barzani, the de facto dictator of the KRG - but is trying to surpress Kurdish language and culture in Turkey itself.

What is true is that the US and Israel have used Kurdish separatism in the last couple of decades to create fault lines and pressure points. Yesterday it was announced 4 Iranian Kurds will be executed for spying for Israel.



Due to their situation Kurds are often characterized as victims. But whenever in positions of power they act the same as those they claim as oppressors. The Armenian Genocide was executed by Kurdish accomplices, and in the Tall Tamr (Syria) area the ancient Assyrian/Chaldean communities are systematically kicked of their lands by the PKK.

It's hard to find good sources of the PKK's mistreatment of local Assyrians and Arabs in Syria. It's only ISIS and Turkey in the press. But I know personally an Assyrian (from Damascus area) who told me that the PKK isn't any better, they just have better PR.

https://fanack.com/syria/population-of-syria/syrias-assyrians-grave-reality-and-uncertain-future/

 

[stadtaffe]

Yesterday it was announced 4 Iranian Kurds will be executed for spying for Israel.

"Iranian Kurds" does sound like they don't know who they are, confused region like Ukraine.

I can't stop thinking of that Kurdish restaurant I used to go to - discussion of their food here :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_cuisine

 

[FrostBITE]

There are always actors and agents interested in aligning with the Kurds to create division or further interests. For instance Erdogan is on very good terms with Barzani, the de facto dictator of the KRG - but is trying to surpress Kurdish language and culture in Turkey itself.

What is true is that the US and Israel have used Kurdish separatism in the last couple of decades to create fault lines and pressure points. Yesterday it was announced 4 Iranian Kurds will be executed for spying for Israel.

View attachment 4423

Due to their situation Kurds are often characterized as victims. But whenever in positions of power they act the same as those they claim as oppressors. The Armenian Genocide was executed by Kurdish accomplices, and in the Tall Tamr (Syria) area the ancient Assyrian/Chaldean communities are systematically kicked of their lands by the PKK.

It's hard to find good sources of the PKK's mistreatment of local Assyrians and Arabs in Syria. It's only ISIS and Turkey in the press. But I know personally an Assyrian (from Damascus area) who told me that the PKK isn't any better, they just have better PR.

https://fanack.com/syria/population-of-syria/syrias-assyrians-grave-reality-and-uncertain-future/

Living alongside Kurds is tantamount to extinction. They are clannish and brutal. The Zionist media has a vested interest in presenting otherwise, but anyone from the region knows what's what. This includes Turks, who have been undergoing a demographic displacement akin to what happened to Armenians and Greeks even before any kind of mass murder. The only thing staying this for now are the migration of Kurds to urban centers like Istanbul and Ankara, or to Western Europe (though Turks from the countryside also do this, exacerbating the problem) and the military might of the Turkish state, which is keenly aware of the demographics and Kurdish opportunism.

As aforementioned, the Zionists have been portraying the Kurds as eternal victims, secular — even progressive — for political reasons, sometimes lending outright support to the PKK or its associates, which is what frustrates Turkey and basically every other country with a substantial Kurdish population. Iran and Iraq have "Kurdistan" provinces, but I can't see Turkey ever agreeing to anything of the sort.

When Zionists and the "brilliant" commentators they constantly trot out, like this bootlicker, say things like this...

Kurds the most enlightened, progressive in region: Slavoj Zizek

Zizek said one of his dreams is to visit a part of Kurdistan, adding that Kurds are a “miracle” and the most progressive people in the region.

He referred to the examples of Kurds in Turkey, an area he is more familiar with, stating that the “tragedy” began when the modern Turkish state was formed. “In this state, there was no place for you [Kurds].”

You can basically assume it's a tissue of lies:

The 2011 Duhok riots refers to riots which began on December 2, 2011 in the Duhok Governorate, Iraq. They were instigated by Friday prayers' sermons by Ismail Osman Sindai,[2] a Kurdish imam, calling for attacks against stores selling alcohol and massage parlours in Zakho. The riots soon developed into the looting and burning down of Assyrian- and Yazidi-owned properties in other towns in the governorate, causing four million dollars of damage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Duhok_riots

 

[LaAguilaNegra]

Living alongside Kurds is tantamount to extinction. They are clannish and brutal. The Zionist media has a vested interest in presenting otherwise, but anyone from the region knows what's what. This includes Turks, who have been undergoing a demographic displacement akin to what happened to Armenians and Greeks even before any kind of mass murder. The only thing staying this for now are the migration of Kurds to urban centers like Istanbul and Ankara, or to Western Europe (though Turks from the countryside also do this, exacerbating the problem) and the military might of the Turkish state, which is keenly aware of the demographics and Kurdish opportunism.

As aforementioned, the Zionists have been portraying the Kurds as eternal victims, secular — even progressive — for political reasons, sometimes lending outright support to the PKK or its associates, which is what frustrates Turkey and basically every other country with a substantial Kurdish population. Iran and Iraq have "Kurdistan" provinces, but I can't see Turkey ever agreeing to anything of the sort.

When Zionists and the "brilliant" commentators they constantly trot out, like this bootlicker, say things like this...

You can basically assume it's a tissue of lies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Duhok_riots

Are you from the region?

Kurds are a demographic time bomb. Their numerical expansion is of great worry to many Turks - as is the Arabs' (both the natives in the Sanliurfa area and all millions of Syrian refugees).

Look at that discrepency. Kurdish and Arab areas in the South West. Many nationalist Turks hate Erdogan for bringing in 5-8 million Syrian and others refugees. Erdogan on the other hand thinks he's the Sultan and 'the leader of the Muslim World'. Hence the friendly attitude towards (Sunni) Muslims from elsewhere.

I read a couple of Insta posts months back of young Turkish women (in Istanbul) complaining of all the Pakistani migrants accosting them. We've come full circle.

 

[Cooper]

I was discussing this with my father earlier today. Is there any chance Turkey could get in the EU? I've heard this on rumors a lot. On one hand, it would speed up the great replacement by a thousand, but on the other, that would speed up the Muslim conundrum with the great replacement. My father's argument was that they were too Muslim to be in Europe, from an EU standpoint. The Greek and Cyprus conflicts are also a deterrent.

You really can't tell with the elites. I'm very curious with how the Muslim conundrum unfolds as the Middle East ***** itself more and more every month, carrying refugees with it, who usually bolt it to Germany and Sweden for economic reasons. I would mildly respect them more if they weren't so shameless in their rush for the richest countries instead of a more humble country. They travel from country to country in trains yet ONLY go to Germany, it's absurd.

Actually it's a cultural thing, the Turks have longstanding ties with Germany, that's where they migrate, the same way the Maghreb Arabs migrate to France. A lot of the immigrants from Algeria or Morocco would have done better going to Germany instead of France, which has had high unemployment for decades now, but they don't, due to cultural barriers.

 

[FrostBITE]

Are you from the region?

Kurds are a demographic time bomb. Their numerical expansion is of great worry to many Turks - as is the Arabs' (both the natives in the Sanliurfa area and all millions of Syrian refugees).

Look at that discrepency. Kurdish and Arab areas in the South West. Many nationalist Turks hate Erdogan for bringing in 5-8 million Syrian and others refugees. Erdogan on the other hand thinks he's the Sultan and 'the leader of the Muslim World'. Hence the friendly attitude towards (Sunni) Muslims from elsewhere.

I read a couple of Insta posts months back of young Turkish women (in Istanbul) complaining of all the Pakistani migrants accosting them. We've come full circle.

View attachment 4426

My parents are.

Not surprising that Istanbul denizens are unhappy with the recent arrivals.

Interestingly, in Iraq, Arabs and Turks sometimes congregate and collaborate since they share an animus for Kurds.

Prime Minister Mohammed Shia al-Sudani imposed the curfew on Saturday evening after rival protests – between Kurdish residents on one side and Turkmen and Arabs on the other – descended into deadly unrest despite a security presence.

Tensions had been brewing for nearly a week in Kirkuk, a northern city which has historically been disputed between the federal government in Baghdad and authorities in the autonomous Kurdistan region of the north.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...iraqs-kirkuk-after-rival-protests-turn-deadly

 

[God's lonely asperger]

Actually it's a cultural thing, the Turks have longstanding ties with Germany, that's where they migrate, the same way the Maghreb Arabs migrate to France. A lot of the immigrants from Algeria or Morocco would have done better going to Germany instead of France, which has had high unemployment for decades now, but they don't, due to cultural barriers.

I kind of overlooked this, maybe my whole time of watching Europe from my eyes. The ties are longstanding more than they stand to this day, I feel. Easier for Hitler to say he likes -Erdogan- (retard moment, I meant Ataturk) than for an average German of today to say he likes Turks (be it for the religion or culture, they tend to get called turkroaches).

I know for a fact North Africans are notorious in Europe, even from my father's stories of his unusual looking friend being suspected of being a Moroccan, and causing the "Arab stare" in all of Europe, despite him being just a mildly weird black Brazilian. Even for Brazilian standards, but if he wore a Fez he would have probably been sent to jail no questions asked. 18 years ago in Spain and London BTW. The stop and search strip (almost literally) story was wild just for his unusual appearance and lack of language skills, but in that time frame I don't doubt it one bit. Maybe today they either wouldn't bother or would have caused riots from the weird black Brazilian in Ingerland.