The Evangelical Faith

An0dyne

Protestant
Heritage
The self-referential term for classical Protestantism was “Evangelical,” just as Rome has “Catholic” and the East has “Orthodox.” Obviously, all three traditions value catholicity, orthodoxy, and the evangel and would claim all three titles, properly understood, as their own. But the monopoly on the nomenclature says something about the impetus of each tradition.

Eventually, a distinction by way of hyphen between “Evangelical-Lutheran” and “Evangelical-Reformed” was necessary to distinguish between those who held to Luther’s mystical understanding of the Evangelical Mass and those who with Calvin and Zwingli wanted to remove the Mass entirely. The Church of England had its own “via media” between these schools. The Presbyterians, Congregationalists (Puritans and Baptists), and Methodists all splintered from the CoE.

Today, the “evangelicals” in America have a monopoly on the term, to my great chagrin. I think it is a valuable descriptor of my faith and that of Luther’s. The heart of Luther’s reform was a restoration of the Evangelical focus of the Mass. Rather than a perfunctory action rotely performed by a priest whispered in a foreign tongue, the Evangelical priest/pastor/episcopos proclaimed the Words of the Testament in persona Christi in the vernacular so they could be understood by His mystical body. Luther saw this as the heart of Evangelical worship—that the Church as a whole can become partakers of the Divine through the external proclamation of the Word in holy worship.

Unfortunately, “dead orthodox” Lutherans lost sight of Luther’s expositional preaching tradition. This is something the Reformed excel at to this day. But they do not have the mystical understanding that was endemic to Luther’s thought and practical theology.

Anyway, I don’t usually like the title “Protestant,” as it indicates a reactionary movement rather than intimating what we actually are. But I’m using the “Protestant” tag so I can participate in this sub-forum. Hopefully this post doesn’t come off as pedantic, but rather as a defense of the legitimacy of our tradition with the other two, and contra the “40,000 denominations” canard. And hopefully it can serve as an opening for discussion on what the basis of the Evangelical tradition is.
 
'Evangelical' has become a muddied term, it used to have a definite meaning. Evangelical Christians today may as well mean American Christians or Trump Christians. It is nominalistic.

There is debate to be had over the understanding of the sacraments and how they interface with soteriology. As much as I admire Luther, I am convinced that Calvin was more logically consistent but even then, I would not affirm his understanding of baptism.

There was a time when the "40,000 denominations" canard was just 20,000. The claims have only become more exaggerated over time. Of course, everytime someone uses that kind of argumentation, what they are really saying is "out of all the denominations, only mine is the true one."
 
I recently looked into this. I found the following link, which is interesting because it has a number of answers to the question, each with a slightly different perspective.

Some of the answers point out like the OP said that Protestants in some European languages consider the word Evangelical to be synonymous with Protestant. However, in the US, it has taken on a different connotation.

The thing I noticed is that the description for US Evangelicals is as much cultural and political as it is doctrinal. They say Evangelicals are patriotic, and vote Republican. Of course, that is not a doctrinal issue. There are some doctrinal things as well, but I thought it was definitely a matter of style as well as substance.


https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-non-Evangelical-Protestants
 
I was confused on what Evangelical actually meant in my country. I've been called Evangelical after saying I frequent a Protestant church, so I assume it's just a wider term for Protestant that's used here because Protestants talk about politics often, among a lot of their reputation.
 
'Evangelical' has become a muddied term, it used to have a definite meaning. Evangelical Christians today may as well mean American Christians or Trump Christians. It is nominalistic.


This is a common objection to the term in Lutheran circles, too. But can’t the same be said of “Protestant?” Or, really, any name (“Catholic” can evoke Francis or Tridentine “rad tradz”). When most hear “prot,” they think gay priestesses.

In any event, I am just extremely tired of forfeiting good things because someone uses them badly. American evangelicalism seems to be on the decline. I for one am happy for that. I will continue to reclaim the term in my context (not suggesting anyone else has to!).
 
I recently looked into this. I found the following link, which is interesting because it has a number of answers to the question, each with a slightly different perspective.

Some of the answers point out like the OP said that Protestants in some European languages consider the word Evangelical to be synonymous with Protestant. However, in the US, it has taken on a different connotation.

The thing I noticed is that the description for US Evangelicals is as much cultural and political as it is doctrinal. They say Evangelicals are patriotic, and vote Republican. Of course, that is not a doctrinal issue. There are some doctrinal things as well, but I thought it was definitely a matter of style as well as substance.


https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-non-Evangelical-Protestants
Yes, I think some of it was a media phenomenon, too; referring to “evangelicals” almost pejoratively to eschew the social right as a political force in the ‘90s, etc. It’s like how they give the dichotomy “pro-choice vs. anti-abortion.” It’s a convenient way to frame a narrative.
 
There is debate to be had over the understanding of the sacraments and how they interface with soteriology. As much as I admire Luther, I am convinced that Calvin was more logically consistent but even then, I would not affirm his understanding of baptism.

I would be interested in having that conversation some time. Perhaps in a different thread, etc. But I think this gets to the heart of both Christianity and the classical Evangelical faith.
 
This is a common objection to the term in Lutheran circles, too. But can’t the same be said of “Protestant?” Or, really, any name (“Catholic” can evoke Francis or Tridentine “rad tradz”). When most hear “prot,” they think gay priestesses.

In any event, I am just extremely tired of forfeiting good things because someone uses them badly. American evangelicalism seems to be on the decline. I for one am happy for that. I will continue to reclaim the term in my context (not suggesting anyone else has to!).
Fair enough. Of the catch-all terms, "Evangelical" is the most beautiful as it is predicated on the Gospel. It is a shame that many who have been defined as Evangelical have lost the focus on the Gospel and have turned their attention towards worldly solutions for spiritual problems. Abuse is not an argument against proper use.
 
I was confused on what Evangelical actually meant in my country. I've been called Evangelical after saying I frequent a Protestant church, so I assume it's just a wider term for Protestant that's used here because Protestants talk about politics often, among a lot of their reputation.
An evangelical in Brazil seems pretty similar to an evangelical in the US from what I've seen. I've had quite a few up close look at their culture since I've had a lot of experience Brazilian evangelical immigrants that have come to the US including playing in worship bands in their churches. Brazilian evangelicals seems to have picked up both a lot of the doctrines that American evangelicals have picked up on (pro-Israel Zionism, being more traditional on LGBT issues then say your typical cultural American or Brazilian Catholic etc.) but also a lot of the culture and presentation such as the style of worship music, the fervent show of emotion during services, the style of dress with tattoos and fashionable clothes and such. This style of Christianity is big enough in Brazil where they can have mass rallies with Presidents will showing up


A lot of these evangelicals tend to be non-denominational and there's a noticeable difference between one of these sort of Protestants vs one that belongs to a more formal and organized denomination like Lutheranism, Reformed or Methodism.

To make things more confusing, back in the day the term evangelical was used to describe the people belonging to denominations that today would be generally considered outside of evangelicalism. The Methodists back when they first started were considered the evangelicals of their day and they possessed many of the characteristics that are now typically associated with modern evangelicalism such as services with lots of emotional release, big revival meetings designed to get as many people to make a personal commitment to Christ, lack of formality when compared to the organized churches of the day - in the case of Methodism they were was often clashes with the formal Church of England even though Methodism was actually an offshoot of the Church of England.
 
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More on evangelicalism in Brazil


“Evangelical” is an umbrella term that encompasses numerous Protestant denominations that share several core tenets. These include the perception of the Bible as the ultimate moral and historical authority, the desire to evangelise and spread the faith and the need for a religious conversion known as being “born again”. Among Christian groups, those who define themselves as evangelical tend to be much more conservative and against progressive values than those who do not define themselves with that label.

A 2020 survey by the private institute Datafolha showed that the percentage of Catholics in Brazil is on the decline (around 51 percent of the total population) while the percentage of evangelicals is rapidly growing (around 31 percent). This signals a major transformation in a country where more than 90 percent of the population identified as Catholic in 1970.

He says understanding the role evangelical temples play in the lives of the faithful is crucial to understanding the increasing power the movement has in the country today.

He says these temples serve as support networks for those in need – they offer literacy courses, activities for children and even financial support for struggling families. He explains that evangelical temples have become the backbone of many poor communities across Brazil, taking over a role previously played by the Catholic Church and left-wing social movements.

Indeed, while the majority of the prominent left-wing movements in Brazil appear to be – much like their US counterparts – stuck in their own identity-based agendas and immersed in so-called “culture wars” the evangelicals are actually doing the leg work, and changing the lives of Brazilians living in poverty for the better. This, in turn, is allowing them to transmit their conservative message further and gain the ability to invite those who they help to participate in organised political action to further their agenda.
 
A big part of Evangelicalism is being born again. I have seen a distinction made between protestants who are "born again" vs those that are not.

Is there any question of the need to be born again, as Jesus explained to Nicodemus in John 3? Do some have a different understanding that goes against the so-called Evangelical view on this?
 
A big part of Evangelicalism is being born again. I have seen a distinction made between protestants who are "born again" vs those that are not.

Is there any question of the need to be born again, as Jesus explained to Nicodemus in John 3? Do some have a different understanding that goes against the so-called Evangelical view on this?
Only question is if you think being born again is a work of the Holy Spirit or if you think it is an internal work on our part. That's generally the dividing line.
 
Only question is if you think being born again is a work of the Holy Spirit or if you think it is an internal work on our part. That's generally the dividing line.

It's pretty clear that humans can't rebirth themselves of the spirit as Jesus described to Nicodemus in John 3. Evangelicals speak of having a personal relationship with Jesus. It's not just believing and being a good person. It is like in John 15, Christ is the vine and we are the branches, and he bears fruit through us, which we could not do ourselves. Like in 2 Corinthians 5:17, If we are in Christ, we are a new creation.

That's what I mean by born again. Some of the descriptions of Evangelicals refer to this idea of being born again in a pejorative way, as if normal Christians don't believe that.
 
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It's pretty clear that humans can't rebirth themselves of the spirit as Jesus described to Nicodemus on John 3. Evangelicals speak of having a personal relationship with Jesus. It's not just believing and being a good person. It is like in John 15, Christ is the vine and we are the branches, and he bears fruit through us, which we could not do ourselves. Like in 2 Corinthians 5:17, If we are in Christ, we are a new creation.

That's what I mean by born again. Some of the descriptions of Evangelicals refer to this idea of being born again in a pejorative way, as if normal Christians don't believe that.
 
“Born again” in a revivalist sense (is that the same as so-called evangelicals? I suspect there’s a diversity of thought) usually means something like “I made a decision for Christ and now I’m reborn! I’m going to get baptized to prove my sincerity!”

Ironically, the rebirth by water and the Spirit is precisely through the power God ascribes to the Baptismal waters, connecting us to the Red Sea and making us who were not a people the people of God, turning slaves into sons, drowning Pharaoh-Satan behind us, burying us beneath the waves like the sinful world in the Flood, raising us to new life like Christ broke forth from the tomb and destroyed death by Death. Being baptized with Christ means claiming the attestation He received—“This is My beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased”—and having the Triune God dwell with and within us. That is what it means to be born again in the classical Evangelical sense. :)
 

Ligonier shared this the other day. It is worth the watch or at least a listen to. I haven't spent too much time listening to Sproul, I'm more of MacArthur's school, but every time I do I am always glad I did.

The doctrine of Creation Ex Nihilo is foundational to the Christian worldview. If it is not true then God is not transcendent. There was no pre-existent matter as the Greeks thought. God was not created as the other pagan religions believed. There was only the Triune God who created everything from nothing. There never was a time when He was not. As Creator, He is the ultimate authority and the One who defines all objective reality.

Notice how Jesus defines marriage based on God's creative act:
Matthew 19:3 And some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and saying, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” 7They *said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?” 8He *said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

Or how Paul likens justification by faith alone with God's power to create from nothing:
Romans 4:16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be according to grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the seed, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all— 17as it is written, “A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU”—in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.

I do not believe Genesis 1:1 to be a summary statement but a literal one.

Edit: Instead of starting a new thread, I am going to treat this as a Protestant Lounge thread.
 
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This might be worthy of a new thread but I figure this is a good place to start it.

I'm a Lutheran and a part of the Missouri synod. In the US, the 3 big Lutheran groups I know of are:
1. The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (pozzed, allows gay marriage/clergy, and female priests)
2. Missouri Synod
3. Wisconsin Synod

My list goes from 1 most pozzed to most conservative. Wisconsin synods are super conservative to the point where women cannot have any say over the authority of men.

I chose the Missouri synod and the only reason I did had to do with finding a church that has a high mass. I'm a former Roman and the format of the holy mass is important. Lutheran churches in the past followed the format of the Romans IE bells, smells, organ, and hymns.

However a lot of Lutheran churches are converting to contemporary services and this bothers me. Why? Because it completely makes church services indistinguishable from other denominations and makes the experience soulless and cookie cutter.

This isn't a knock at those who get value from these but it's essentially spiritual milk and honey. The traditional high church service when done right wraps in the lessons and sermons to the hymns.

The church I've found does a hybrid version. It follows a divine setting but then will throw a few contemporary hymns in during communion. It works.

It's just getting harder to find what I grew up with. Sooner or later they will all do the contemporary style. At that point I'll probably go orthodox but that's a different discussion.
 
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