Orthodoxy as a nomad or transient person

[Blade Runner]

Has anyone had to deal with the reality of being a transient person, either due to modern job situations, regional job opportunities, or even digital nomad considerations ... and squaring that away with trying to be a more faithful Orthodox Christian? It seems to me that since life has changed so much, and God knows also that this has affected everyone for a long time in the modern, developed world (of transportation and education, among other things), this will be increasingly an issue also as the stations of life and traditional living (marriage, settling down, naturally seeking a local community) are less and less common among people. I've thought a lot about how even more difficult this might be or seem if you are overseas.

Any thoughts or contemplations on this topic are appreciated.

 

[Cornelius V.E.]

May St. Maximus the Hut Burner pray for us!

 

[Jeremiah Branch]

I would say having a very solid prayer rule is key: One has to maintain the impetus and habit of praying regardless of what is around you or what is lacking around you.

Also, always have some Orthodox books -- whether lives of the saints, counsels and wisdom, or whatever -- with you so that you are maintaining an Orthodox mindset and consciousness.

And think about people who themselves were far away from any sort of substantial Orthodox culture, and yet they maintained it or even spread it: e.g. Fr. Seraphim Rose, St. Herman of Alaska, Elder Ephraim of Arizona etc etc.

We need to cultivate an attitude and consciousness of Orthodoxy within ourselves that is strong enough to resist the forgetfulness and distraction that can easily overtake us if we are not constantly in an external environment of Orthodoxy via divine services and fellowship with those around us.

 

[TrainedLogosmotion]

Has anyone had to deal with the reality of being a transient person, either due to modern job situations, regional job opportunities, or even digital nomad considerations ... and squaring that away with trying to be a more faithful Orthodox Christian? It seems to me that since life has changed so much, and God knows also that this has affected everyone for a long time in the modern, developed world (of transportation and education, among other things), this will be increasingly an issue also as the stations of life and traditional living (marriage, settling down, naturally seeking a local community) are less and less common among people. I've thought a lot about how even more difficult this might be or seem if you are overseas.

Any thoughts or contemplations on this topic are appreciated.

Let's just look at an example. Say Argentina since it's a good shout in many ways for relocation.

Best bet there is ROCOR. They have the largest presence in Latin America there. Some really beautiful churches in Buenos Aires.

The only issue I see is learning Spanish. But once you've for that down you can fully participate.

But then if you decided to change to Romania, another good option to relocate, you'd have to learn Romanian.

I'm just pointing out that the language thing can make it tough.

If you are in the Greek church and go to the Philippines, they do the liturgy in English and Greek. So places like that are easier to jump in to the community I'd imagine.

I would say if we do the nomadic thing, at least for an exploratory phase let's say, it would make sense to really make sure about the region or 'geographical path' and focus on that language/languages to really become fluent.

Even at my Greek church in the US a lot of the liturgy is done in Greek and many speak Greek. I don't. If I were in Greece I at least wouldn't have trouble participating in the Church services.

I talked to a guy in Georgia (the country) that goes to an English only liturgy on Saturdays. I'd prefer to avoid falling in to an expat bubble like this an opt for learning the language and blending with the locals. However Georgian is extremely hard to learn.

The beauty of Orthodoxy is that the liturgies are pretty much the same everywhere though, so even without learning the local languages we can still participate.

I know this isn't all about language but it is important. I feel like this is a major paint point of being nomadic and trying to also be communal in the Church at the same time.

I think it would make sense to really hone in on the top spots we want to go and even if we continued to be nomadic longer term we could at least have regular spots we keep going back to.

One of the key ideas I have for this is marrying a girl first before this exploratory nomadic phase, preferably one that can speak the language of the region or country I want to go to, which would make communal life more accessible.

Heck, even somewhere like Thailand (risky) actually has a pretty solid ROCOR presence, so I don't think we'd necessarily have to hyper focus on Orthodox countries. It can also just be a small community somewhere. USA definitely isn't Orthodox and many already make it work with their small circles.

Not sure if this is what you're trying to flesh out or not.

 

[Blade Runner]

The only issue I see is learning Spanish. But once you've for that down you can fully participate.

But then if you decided to change to Romania, another good option to relocate, you'd have to learn Romanian.

I'm just pointing out that the language thing can make it tough.

If you are in the Greek church and go to the Philippines, they do the liturgy in English and Greek. So places like that are easier to jump in to the community I'd imagine.

I would say if we do the nomadic thing, at least for an exploratory phase let's say, it would make sense to really make sure about the region or 'geographical path' and focus on that language/languages to really become fluent.

At this point I'm assessing what the slings and barbs are associated with being a nomad, and what's more, being a successful man coming from a desert of women (few and older) to an oasis (many, better looking, and younger). I like a lot of the LatAm culture but they are largely low trust, low IQ places, but more outgoing and more fun (= danger). I know their language and that makes the other countries in question (such as a eastern bloc or FSU country), which suit me more (generally better for wives and families moving forward, but probably harder to attract in some ways), have to fall on the other spectrum of "more work, so the women have to be that much more inclined to be with you". What I'm saying is that the time and effort that you put in as to have an obvious, higher ROI. A place like Argentina could be a good mixture, as it is a more European mixture, closer on the spectrum to Europe as opposed to LatAm.

One of the key ideas I have for this is marrying a girl first before this exploratory nomadic phase, preferably one that can speak the language of the region or country I want to go to, which would make communal life more accessible.

You have it a little in reverse here. The nomadic phase unfortunately is the one that sets up the place you want to be in and thus creates the situation for a woman to naturally fall into that. One of the better things to do, possibly ideal, would be a move from an EE country to a LatAm environment (there's a lot of flakiness and simping in LatAm due to it's indifference to an infidelity culture), but that gets complicated for many reasons, mostly visa and other such issues with the woman's home country and travel (unless you're a permanent resident in the new country and their laws aren't awful).

 

[TrainedLogosmotion]

You have it a little in reverse here. The nomadic phase unfortunately is the one that sets up the place you want to be in and thus creates the situation for a woman to naturally fall into that. One of the better things to do, possibly ideal, would be a move from an EE country to a LatAm environment (there's a lot of flakiness and simping in LatAm due to it's indifference to an infidelity culture), but that gets complicated for many reasons, mostly visa and other such issues with the woman's home country and travel (unless you're a permanent resident in the new country and their laws aren't awful).

So is what you're postulating here along the lines of, hypothetically speaking, meeting your wife on your nomadic journey in EE, let's say Romania, and transporting her along with you into LA, say Argentina?

Therefore increasing odds of someone more compatible with you in EE while decreasing the odds of falling into adultery/fornication in LA due to temptation (this is why I put Thailand as "risky" for the same reasons. I cannot be there anymore because I cannot contain myself, and the culture is entirely alien/pagan), and also someone less likely to be compatible genetically and culturally.

I'm just trying to follow you. Essentially I believe you're describing a potential situation where BOTH you AND the wife are engaged in the nomadic venture together, to plan and build this life in the exploratory phase of searching for an ideal place to create your own 'little Eden' (doing this along with her would help make the travel purposeful rather than crumble into selfish musings).

Romania interestingly has the same Italian kind of flair that Argentina does. It wouldn't be hard for a Romanian wife to learn Spanish either, being that they are both Latin based languages. I'm sure there are even some Romanians in the ROCOR communities in Argentina.

The air of war has to be considered (and even if not directly attached to a place like Romania, the region itself gets effected economically), and Argentina in many aspects is a haven against WW3, while Romania most likely isn't, even with regards to lesser atrocities like an unfortunate invasion from Russia or what have you.

Of course there is the feasibility of traveling back and forth from Romania being unrealistic. It's a long journey with disruptive jet lag. Argentina is shorter but can be burdensome on the pocket, so I have looked into routes that don't fly in directly such as landing in Uruguay and taking the ferry over which would save money with frequent trips with the wife.

The visa situation seems much easier obviously also, for with Argentina we'd only need to be a resident for 2 years to gain citizenship (I imagine this process is the same for a Romanian wife), whereas Romanian citizenship is more complicated.

The exchange rate at least for now in Argentina is great for USD. And the new president, even though he's a ZOG puppet, is kind of like a Trump figure so at least he would hopefully get some things right that shield citizens from tyranny, even if he's only to appease them as some kind of controlled op stooge. Maybe that would mean things like no mandatory vax, no digital ID, etc. The universal healthcare is nice to have also, along with being able to buy and own property, businesses can be 100% foreign-owned, etc.

I think one key pitfall is that many women in the EE won't want to leave their families and their homeland, but it's important to mention here, many of those who have immigrated to Argentina have done exactly this. There is a shared comraderie there (I.e. Russians and Ukrainians fleeing war torn areas).

There are women who are widowed. Those who are orphans. There are the gypsies. I'm sure there are many souls in Romania that yearn for a new life but at the same time don't want to go to the Great Satan of USA, and would be comfortable leaving their old Soviet block as it's become a place of despair for them.

Is this kind of what you're getting at?

 

[Cornelius V.E.]

I think one key pitfall is that many women in the EE won't want to leave their families and their homeland, but it's important to mention here, many of those who have immigrated to Argentina have done exactly this. There is a shared comraderie there (I.e. Russians and Ukrainians fleeing war torn areas).

This 100%. If you marry a dedicated and traditional Orthodox woman in a place like Romania, she is going to be super close to her family, and she's not going to be super enthusiastic about the prospect of moving to the other side of the world and rarely seeing her family.

 

[TrainedLogosmotion]

This 100%. If you marry a dedicated and traditional Orthodox woman in a place like Romania, she is going to be super close to her family, and she's not going to be super enthusiastic about the prospect of moving to the other side of the world and rarely seeing her family.

Yes, I was pointing out that while that can be a pitfall or indestructible barrier, arguably even sinful, certainly in the case with a traditonal Orthodox woman in a large, structured family and community and tearing her away, there are also potential outliers to the contarary which I also mentioned that wouldn't be a deal breaker to the cause itself, that being the migrating of the wife to another country.

There are women in situations where they find themselves on a same 'level' let's say as one doing this. There has to be a mutual harmony to this whole process for it to work.

A more concrete hypothetical example of something more worthwhile is, let's say, a woman that has no family or maybe just 1 or 2 family members she's estranged from. She doesn't like her life/job etc where she is. She wants an escape. I don't want to strawman this example it's just one that highlights what I'm getting at.

If both don't have extended or rooted family structures then it's a non issue - it actually becomes an incentive for this type of 'migratory' union depending on how we paint the circumstances.

They can start fresh together, creating the family and community together as pilgrims. There are lots of different scenarios one could imagine that would make this feasible.

While I agree with you that SOME or even MOST women may be this way, it doesn't completely rule out the possibility of ones that aren't and would fit into our lives.

It's enough to be aware of this beforehand, but not take it to the extent of losing hope on the matter entirely.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Nagareboshi]

I met two different nomadic type people in the Orthodox Church who keep in very frequent and close contact with their spiritual fathers from back home. They have phone calls, text messages, and confessions as well. They seem to hold themselves seriously accountable to those fathers. To me, it sounds like a nice way to make sure you're keeping a single person updated on all your sins and struggles.

 

[Blade Runner]

Therefore increasing odds of someone more compatible with you in EE while decreasing the odds of falling into adultery/fornication in LA due to temptation (this is why I put Thailand as "risky" for the same reasons. I cannot be there anymore because I cannot contain myself, and the culture is entirely alien/pagan), and also someone less likely to be compatible genetically and culturally.

I think one key pitfall is that many women in the EE won't want to leave their families and their homeland, but it's important to mention here, many of those who have immigrated to Argentina have done exactly this.

There are women in situations where they find themselves on a same 'level' let's say as one doing this. There has to be a mutual harmony to this whole process for it to work.

A more concrete hypothetical example of something more worthwhile is, let's say, a woman that has no family or maybe just 1 or 2 family members she's estranged from. She doesn't like her life/job etc where she is. She wants an escape. I don't want to strawman this example it's just one that highlights what I'm getting at.

I'm surprised I missed these posts. It must have been a Thanksgiving/timing thing. You are understanding me to a T. My analysis in general about LatAm is that it can work, but it's also a low IQ, low fidelity, high fun place in general, thus you are understanding me very well. And it doesn't have the fallback of Orthodoxy even as cultural; let's face it, it's not like the woman in LatAm even cares about RC, so it's not like you're getting some devoted believer who's solid or malleable with already good characteristics anyway.

The families and homeland part is definitely an important point. The thing about that too is that it seems that Europe and the USA, among other five eyes nations (worse than the US by far, and that's saying a lot) are all controlled by Godless powers, even if all their populations aren't Godless themselves. It could just be me, but I tend to take a more extreme view on how bad things are, because I think we don't hear about all of it much, since people want to believe that the economy, future, and current administrations or governments aren't as bad as they really are. There are a few countries that I have in mind that have great women and also a desire to "escape". The issue is what do you do in the interim, where do you go, if you fear that your surveillance state country is suboptimal, even though regions are livable? The laws and such haven't really changed in developed world, so it's almost like you have to hang out somewhere else and have the kids where the culture isn't totally stupid and insane.