Justification by Faith Alone: Orthodox Vs. Protestant

[JCSteel]

Watching Fr. John Whiteford during this debate was a tipping point for me and made me realize I could justify becoming Eastern Orthodox. He clarified the Orthodox position on justification by faith alone in a way that satisfied me. Both men spoke well and it was a respectful debate, well-worth watching.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

I've had the pleasure of engaging with Fr. Whiteford once before. I obviously don't agree with him but he's a good guy. I will be giving this a listen to.

 

[Iacobus]

I've never understood the controversy over faith vs. works as the Scripture seems quite clear about the matter a strictly logical sense.

Faith produces works.
Faith without works is dead i.e. not true faith.
Works done without faith i.e. not to the glory of God, will reveal themselves and be accounted as such by God.
However good works done to the glory of God are the RESULT and PRODUCT of faith & co-operation with the Divine will.
Thus it's true to say that faith is the cornerstone of salvation and that without faith we won't be saved, that good works done in an attempt to 'bargain with God' will be to no avail.
Yet faith cannot be limited to, say, a profession of intellectual belief, or some kind of emotional state, that is empty of works.

 

[JCSteel]

I've never understood the controversy over faith vs. works as the Scripture seems quite clear about the matter a strictly logical sense.

Faith produces works.
Faith without works is dead i.e. not true faith.
Works done without faith i.e. not to the glory of God, will reveal themselves and be accounted as such by God.
However good works done to the glory of God are the RESULT and PRODUCT of faith & co-operation with the Divine will.
Thus it's true to say that faith is the cornerstone of salvation and that without faith we won't be saved, that good works done in an attempt to 'bargain with God' will be to no avail.
Yet faith cannot be limited to, say, a profession of intellectual belief, or some kind of emotional state, that is empty of works.

I think a lot of Protestants would agree with that, but some have to do an unnecessary dance to avoid being called corrupters of the Gospel since faith alone without works is such a cornerstone for them.

I've heard evangelicals on youtube say good works can't even be the proof of salvation, no it's just that you believe "the facts of the gospel."

 

[Thomas More]

I think a lot of Protestants would agree with that, but some have to do an unnecessary dance to avoid being called corrupted of the Gospel since faith a lone without works is such a cornerstone for them.

I think this is simply untrue. I would say you have had an incorrect report of Protestant teaching.

I have only ever heard it taught the same as Iacobus's excellent statement. I have attended a lot of Protestant churches across a range of denominations and I always heard this preaching consistantly.

I'm sure somewhere there is a Protestant who preaches what you said, but every place I've ever been would condemn it.

 

[JCSteel]

I think this is simply untrue. I would say you have had an incorrect report of Protestant teaching.

I have only ever heard it taught the same as Iacobus's excellent statement. I have attended a lot of Protestant churches across a range of denominations and I always heard this preaching consistdntly.

I sure somewhere there is a Protestant who preaches what you said, but I every place I've ever been would condemn it.

You've been to some good churches then. I know there is a difference between a solid Presbyterian or Baptist church that holds to the 17th century confessions and all the the stuff I might hear from some evangelical on the internet. I've been to some nondenominational churches where repentance and holiness weren't emphasized as I thought they should be. That's part of my issue with the Protestant/Evangelical world- I never know what I'm going to encounter.