Dissident Right and Orthodoxy

Teedub

Orthodox Catechumen
Heirloom
Philanthropist
Why are those who swim in dissident right circles - via politics, manosphere etc - now drawn to orthodoxy? I don't mean drawn to religion, but orthodoxy specifically? Of course, there are those like Nick Fuentes who are traditional catholics and many protestants too. However, orthodoxy seems to be the one most represented. To the point that the media has coined terms like 'Orthobros' in an attempt to demean and mock.

I have my own theories about this, but I wanted to see the general consensus.
 
I think its quite simple really.

People are looking for roots in a rootless culture. Christianity is part of our roots, and there is a good case to be made for Orthodoxy being the most firmly rooted in tradition that has remained unchanged for centuries, whereas Catholics have to contend with a Pope who says disconcerting things and wants to get rid of the traditional Latin mass etc., and Protestantism is comparatively new.

In short it is arguably the best answer to a lot of the problems people face, and thats why people are drawn to it.
 
One of the mains reasons has to do with a quality of mind that is open to ideas outside of the worldview and presuppositions that surround all of us in mainstream culture. It is a willingness essentially to not care what others think, and therefore to pursue the truth wherever it leads regardless of peer pressure, family pressure, social standing etc.

In it's heyday, the constellation of issues and areas that were of concern to the "Dissident Right" writ large was extremely wide and broad. It extended from everything to diet, exercise, man-woman relations, race, JQ, etc. And if you were able to "break through" on one or more issues, it eventually became a habit of mind to focus on objective truth regardless of how much of a threat such a search might be to one's longstanding worldview, one's social group, one's identity, etc.

To give a petty but very real example, many people (myself included) were raised to believe that cholesterol and saturated fat were extremely unhealthy and even dangerous. The only way to find out the reality of their healthful properties was an independence of mind, a natural curiosity and propensity to research, a willingness to consider non-mainstream sources and an open-mindedness and willingness to reject "common knowledge" and ultimately a willingness to act against what every fiber of your being was telling you not to do.

Once that process has played out on, say, cholesterol and saturated fat, you move on to cardio vs. weights, and maybe this leads to research on male and female roles, etc. The same thing can play out in the areas of crime and race and the JQ etc. This process I am describing was a very real thing, particularly back in the "early days" of the dissident right (say 2009-2014), when you really had to piece through it issue by issue and search these things out.

I think the same willingness to "abandon one's identify", if you will, in those many areas, left people with a habit of mind that was willing to abandon something even as deep and entrenched as one's default religious identity, in part because of a realization that one's acceptance of the original worldview was never based upon any consideration of its merits. If your identity and habits are now about Truth Seeking above all else, you will simply view the options in a more disinterested and objective way. The fact is that this type of disinterested and sincere search will in many cases lead to Orthodoxy.

The fact that many people today in the West also lack a solid core identity may also make that process easier and even necessary for some: You have to seek out and claim your identity, since many of the standard types of identity other cultures take for granted have been diluted, stolen, abandoned.

If this all sounds a bit triumphalist about Orthodoxy, so be it. The fact is, from my perspective, Orthodoxy does get closer to the Truth than any alternative.

To sum this up a different way, the qualities of mind that made many people open to the Red Pill also made them open to the God Pill, and very specifically to the Orthodox Pill.
 
Why are those who swim in dissident right circles - via politics, manosphere etc - now drawn to orthodoxy? I don't mean drawn to religion, but orthodoxy specifically? Of course, there are those like Nick Fuentes who are traditional catholics and many protestants too. However, orthodoxy seems to be the one most represented. To the point that the media has coined terms like 'Orthobros' in an attempt to demean and mock.

I have my own theories about this, but I wanted to see the general consensus.
As far as I know, Nick Fuentes is not a traditional catholic, when I saw him speak on the issue he doesn't care about specific details within his religion, he doesn't care about Novus Ordo and attends that sort of mass too. But in the sense that the pope IS tradition according to the popes since Vatican 1, I guess you could call him a traditional papist.
 
On the surface level it’s that Orthodoxy seems based, and it’s a tradition that has resisted the twist of the progressive ratchet. The dissident right has this weird lip-service to tradition, an acknowledgment of its necessity and yet a refusal to submit to one and humble oneself. A good example is BAP and his followers, who have this kind of ecumenist reverence to anything that resists globohomo, he’ll wish his followers happy Easter with a picture of Christ as a Chad and then glorify ancient paganism the next day.

When I first began attending an Orthodox Church, I was worried that I was just larping and sticking my flag here because BASED. But then you go deeper, you scratch the surface of the theology, the unfathomably deep spiritual tradition of Orthodox monasticism and it softens you. You realise that you’re sick, and the church is a hospital. It asks a lot of you and challenges you, but you get back more than you bargained for in the best possible way.
 
People have come to see that contemporary social norms and paradigms are relative and the products of various agendas. They began to wonder what is not relative, what is firm, absolute, to look for roots to ground themselves against the chaos tides of the modern world. So they rediscovered religion.

Now, Protestantism is all but cucked and ruined, while disillusioned Protestants may find Catholicism somewhat antithetical due to the papacy and the Protestant-Catholic turbulent history. And then, contemporary Catholicism is also cucked and ruined. What to do? Is there a third option to consider?

Once they start researching the history of the Church (something that was not so readily available before the Internet) they find out that the Orthodox Church is the same one founded by the Apostles. The One, True, Apostolic and Holy, the only one with the unbroken Apostolic succession. To know that, and to still belong to some of numerous Protestant denominations, means fooling yourself. So they no longer have an excuse. And they are used to the concept of "church-hopping" anyway, so converting to Orthodoxy is not as problematic as it might be for others.

It is becoming harder even for those of less serious, nominal identitarian type to indentify without disgust and shame with contemporary mainstream "Christianity" with so much rampant cuckoldry and degeneracy going on, so I expect they will eventually convert as well, or fall away. There is simply no other option.

Not to mention that those who delve deeper into the mystical heart of Orthodoxy find something that transcends mundane things. And that, in fact, is the true essence of the Orthodox faith.

So as already stated:
Red Pill -> Truth Pill -> God Pill -> Ortho Pill.
 
Once they start researching the history of the Church (something that was not so readily available before the Internet) they find out that the Orthodox Church is the same one founded by the Apostles. The One, True, Apostolic and Holy, the only one with the unbroken Apostolic succession. To know that, and to still belong to some of numerous Protestant denominations, means fooling yourself. So they no longer have an excuse. And they are used to the concept of "church-hopping" anyway, so converting to Orthodoxy is not as problematic as it might be for others.
I understand the claims Eastern Orthodoxy makes for itself and still remain a Reformed Christian. I think you could benefit from humility towards your fellow Christians, even if they are Protestants.
 
I understand the claims Eastern Orthodoxy makes for itself and still remain a Reformed Christian. I think you could benefit from humility towards your fellow Christians, even if they are Protestants.
I have no intention of entering into a offtopic polemic about the fact that the Orthodox Church is the only one with an unbroken apostolic succession. The internet is full of evidence, you can easily find it. If it triggers you, along with my freely expressed opinion on the subject, and you cannot accept it, then maybe you are the one who needs to learn humility.

When you see someone in delusion or working against himself, you should not refrain from correcting him so as not to hurt his vanity.
God bless and peace out. I hope you find the answers you are lacking.
 
I have no intention of entering into a offtopic polemic about the fact that the Orthodox Church is the only one with an unbroken apostolic succession.
We already covered that in another thread.

The internet is full of evidence, you can easily find it.
This is the second time someone has said, "convert to Eastern Orthodoxy because internet."

When you see someone in delusion or working against himself, you should not refrain from correcting him so as not to hurt his vanity.
God bless and peace out. I hope you find the answers you are lacking.
Do not bless me and curse me in the same breath.
 
It is Orthodoxy specifically because Orthodoxy is basically the opposite of everything in modern culture. Not only that, it is opposite of the mindset that brought about modern culture as well. This part is more subtle but when it is seen it is difficult to unsee.
 
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This is the second time someone has said, "convert to Eastern Orthodoxy because internet."
Look man, you can't just expect people to write you a wall of text explaining their religious beliefs, especially if you don't seem particularly interested. They might do it sometimes, but if they say "eh this info is out there, easy to find, look for it if you're interested", then that's honestly a perfectly fair response.
 
Look man, you can't just expect people to write you a wall of text explaining their religious beliefs, especially if you don't seem particularly interested. They might do it sometimes, but if they say "eh this info is out there, easy to find, look for it if you're interested", then that's honestly a perfectly fair response.
I only need one or a few more Bible verses to sum up my religious beliefs, but those would probably go off-topic.

The "info is out there" argument doesn't work when you remember the nature of the internet. A western "Buddhist" will tell you the same, and an atheist will tell you the same. The thing that aligns these two is that they are new idiologies that are the opposite of people's traditions, causing the bugman phenomenon. And they both like to use that argument.
If we're all here from a forum that banned people for not being Orthodox, I'm inclined to believe most people have looked into it.

I can't help but cringe when the internet is mentioned for conversion, but not a single text, belief, tradition, or anything of that sort is. The apostles did not look up youtube debate videos to write their gospels.
 
I don't think it's very complicated. Catholicism is hollowed out by globohomo with a globohomo pope (and the cardinals that elected him). Archbishop Vigano, who is wonderful, complains all the time about how corrupt the Catholic bureaucracy has become. Protestantism is half a step away from modern shitliberalism and it led to it directly via Unitarianism taking over the university system. Orthodoxy is attractive to dissidents because it hasn't changed since before the Schism, so it's seen as a shelter or counter to globohomo while other streams of Christianity aren't.
 
The pandemic revealed a lot of pretenders and Roosh, whose reach was however long, touched a lot of people. I believe the evil revealed to the world, the JQ becoming more obvious and open, made people attracted to Orthodoxy because it seems like they take their religion seriously. In the protestant circles I grew up in and frequented there was always a pushback against works and needing to earn your salvation. Because of this it only seemed like weirdos were being hardcore about Christianity. Orthodoxy shows a true need that was previously lacking. I think in this way the movement we are seeing is similar to how Mormonism was created and popularized in New York (read The Burned-Over District). At a time when Calvinist Christians never knew if they were predestined for salvation or not, Mormonism, which gave clear instructions on what one needed to do to earn salvation, seemed like a logically inevitable reaction to a very real fear of hellfire and anxiety of not knowing where you would end up until death.
 
It is Orthodoxy specifically because Orthodoxy is basically the opposite of everything in modern culture. Not only that, it is opposite of the mindset that brought about modern culture as well. This part is more subtle but when it is seen it is difficult to unsee.
I think something I'm struggling with is squaring Christian belief with ethnonationalist (or at least ethnonationalist adjacent) politics.
 
For some reason the ethnonationalist part never bothered me. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because I've always felt somewhat like a stranger in the US culture anyways. I also enjoy being in other cultures so I am used to be the odd man out.

Theoretically I think it would be great to be enveloped in something like an ethnonationalist world. It seems very natural. But it seems like our lot now will always be aloof from that. We are children of modernity. No roots, no place, no deep connection with our own people and culture and land. I am, for example, a mishmash of several European cultures and I don't really like it because: which do I hold claim to? Where do I connect to my story? I unfortunately embody the dissolution the globohomo culture has worked so long to bring about. This is what I've struggled with but I know God redeems the edges as well. Which is where a lot of us fit into this story now.

So, in short it doesn't bother me because I think it's a feature of Orthodoxy that seems organic, natural, and helps connect us to place and reality. I understand the arguments about potential conflict from it but I think it's one of these things that are actually good twisted into something terrible. So I wouldn't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.
 
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For some reason the ethnonationalist part never bothered me. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because I've always felt somewhat like a stranger in the US culture anyways. I also enjoy being in other cultures so I am used to be the odd man out.

Theoretically I think it would be great to be enveloped in something like an ethnonationalist world. It seems very natural. But it seems like our lot now will always be aloof from that. We are children of modernity. No roots, no place, no deep connection with our own people and culture and land. I am, for example, a mishmash of several European cultures and I don't really like it because: which do I hold claim to? Where do I connect to my story? I unfortunately embody the dissolution the globohomo culture has worked so long to bring about. This is what I've struggled with but I know God redeems the edges as well. Which is where a lot of us fit into this story now.

So, in short it doesn't bother me because I think it's a feature of Orthodoxy that seems organic, natural, and helps connect us to place and reality. I understand the arguments about potential conflict from it but I think it's one of these things that are actually good twisted into something terrible. So I wouldn't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.
I can definitely relate to the feeling of "I feel like a foreigner everywhere anyway." I basically have no culture, and all I know about my ethnic identity is that I am brown and from Colombia. I've been told that I look like some kind of arab, hopefully no Jewish blood in there.

A real bummer to be sure. But hey, it looks like it might make it easier to join the Orthodox Church, and I'm pretty sure I'll care a lot more about that than culture after I die. Can't imagine myself 1000 years after my departure from this realm, thinking "man I sure am still bummed out that schlomo left me with no culture back then".
 
I think something I'm struggling with is squaring Christian belief with ethnonationalist (or at least ethnonationalist adjacent) politics.

We're born in a certain cultural context, speaking a specific language, and Orthodoxy grew in a more natural state of the world, and that's why you have the Antiochan/Greek/Bulgarian/Serbian/Russian/Romanian/Macedonian/Ukrainian Orthodox Churches.

Right now we live in a highly unnatural state of the world, where peoples are all mixed and confused, in the old world, populations moved slowly and thus naturally homogenized. Do you not find it more natural to relate to those who look/speak/act/ and in general believe the same you do? I don't think this is that controversial. There's always a tension that exists between the ideal, and what exists in real life. What part exactly do you struggle with?
 
I think the struggle would be that Christianity is supposed to be inclusive and welcoming regardless of colour or creed. And while in theory I agree, in practice I can't stop myself from preferring to be among (mainly) my own people regardless of their religious beliefs. While I'd prefer 5 Nigerian Christians living on my street compared to 5 Pakistani Muslims, I'd probably rather 5 non-religious Europeans.
 
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