credit card duopoly

stadtaffe

Orthodox
Heirloom
This topic worries me, although I'm not sure whether there really is a hidden danger or not.

In the last few years I've noticed how the banks are increasingly phasing out regular cards of smaller networks and it is becoming next to impossible to get a bank card without a Visa logo on it.

Then I had some transactions decline and had no idea why. One larger transaction was eventually fixed with a series of phonecalls. One of them actually put my life in danger - I was depending on a taxi app late at night to get home in a rather dangerous African country after an event and all of a sudden the credit card declined and for tiny amounts. So that left me quite passionate about this topic, and I thankfully managed to switch to cash for that taxi app, less to go wrong. I know there are others who have some amount of grudge against these companies.

I've been reading up on it - will not post any links or specific quotes now, but if there are signs of interest, will post a few links when more awake.

The duopoly is of course Mastercard and Visa. Visa is approximately the 10th largest company in the world with all the usual suspects as largest shareholders, Blackrock, Vanguard. I'm writing this from memory so please correct if some slight errors here. Mastercard is about a quarter of the size by market capitalisation, very similar major shareholders.

Apparently there is some technical difference in the networks, Mastercard being more decentralised while Visa having the entire world's transactions handled at a very small number of large data centres in America and one in London.

Of course the duopoly partially switched off transactions in Russia once the war started. They also notably both blocked funding to Wikileaks for a time.

Both these companies started around the 60s when groups of American banks got together to find better solutions for payments processing.

Russia now has its own card, I think it's called Mir but it is only accepted in Russia, Cuba, Venezuela and a couple of other places.

The other American cards, Discover, American Express, Diners Club I don't believe have their own actual network, they just borrow a network from the duopoly.

There are some other networks in Asia, JCB and Unionpay but in the West it really is a duopoly which covers north America, Europe, Oceania and in an incomplete sense the rest of the world. No independent networks for Europe at all.

Something else which is a duopoly are the operating systems Windows and iOS but at least we have Linux..

The mobile phone networks and landline networks are nothing like this - each region has its own although there are some common owners.

I'd be most surprised if Visa and Mastercard were not plotting and scheming a social credit score at Davos. I miss the days of cutting out an order form from a magazine and posting it with a money order or cheque.

It seems benign but it is an almost worldwide duopoly with similar shareholders. All kinds of merchants only accept those 2.

Does anyone know much about this topic or had any experiences worth sharing?
 
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This topic worries me, although I'm not sure whether there really is a hidden danger or not.

In the last few years I've noticed how the banks are increasingly phasing out regular cards of smaller networks and it is becoming next to impossible to get a bank card without a Visa logo on it.

Then I had some transactions decline and had no idea why. One larger transaction was eventually fixed with a series of phonecalls. One of them actually put my life in danger - I was depending on a taxi app late at night to get home in a rather dangerous African country after an event and all of a sudden the credit card declined and for tiny amounts. So that left me quite passionate about this topic, and I thankfully managed to switch to cash for that taxi app, less to go wrong. I know there are others who have some amount of grudge against these companies.

I've been reading up on it - will not post any links or specific quotes now, but if there are signs of interest, will post a few links when more awake.

The duopoly is of course Mastercard and Visa. Visa is approximately the 10th largest company in the world with all the usual suspects as largest shareholders, Blackrock, Vanguard. I'm writing this from memory so please correct if some slight errors here. Mastercard is about a quarter of the size by market capitalisation, very similar major shareholders.

Apparently there is some technical difference in the networks, Mastercard being more decentralised while Visa having the entire world's transactions handled at a very small number of large data centres in America and one in London.

Of course the duopoly partially switched off transactions in Russia once the war started. They also notably both blocked funding to Wikileaks for a time.

Both these companies started around the 60s when groups of American banks got together to find better solutions for payments processing.

Russia now has its own card, I think it's called Mir but it is only accepted in Russia, Cuba, Venezuela and a couple of other places.

The other American cards, Discover, American Express, Diners Club I don't believe have their own actual network, they just borrow a network from the duopoly.

There are some other networks in Asia, JCB and Unionpay but in the West it really is a duopoly which covers north America, Europe, Oceania and in an incomplete sense the rest of the world. No independent networks for Europe at all.

Something else which is a duopoly are the operating systems Windows and iOS but at least we have Linux..

The mobile phone networks and landline networks are nothing like this - each region has its own although there are some common owners.

I'd be most surprised if Visa and Mastercard were not plotting and scheming a social credit score at Davos. I miss the days of cutting out an order form from a magazine and posting it with a money order or cheque.

It seems benign but it is an almost worldwide duopoly with similar shareholders. All kinds of merchants only accept those 2.

Does anyone know much about this topic or had any experiences worth sharing?
BTC and blockchain applications in general will disrupt the big two. It should be interesting to see the kind of "agreements" to which they'll have to concede.
 
BTC and blockchain applications in general will disrupt the big two. It should be interesting to see the kind of "agreements" to which they'll have to concede.
The time is ripe for some kind of startup which brings fintech and crypto together. There are all these payment apps like Revolut, Klarna, Stripe but also don't see them disrupting "the big two"
 
The other American cards, Discover, American Express, Diners Club I don't believe have their own actual network, they just borrow a network from the duopoly.

I'm pretty sure american express has their own network.
In many retail establishments they even have a separate card machine because of this.
Also, they are the only major card provider to NOT offer automatic currency conversion on the machine when paying in a foreign currency.
 
I'm pretty sure american express has their own network.
In many retail establishments they even have a separate card machine because of this.
Also, they are the only major card provider to NOT offer automatic currency conversion on the machine when paying in a foreign currency.
That's interesting. Read up on it and American Express does appear to have its own network, at least in America. I remember the ads don't leave home without it but have never had one.
 
This topic worries me, although I'm not sure whether there really is a hidden danger or not.

In the last few years I've noticed how the banks are increasingly phasing out regular cards of smaller networks and it is becoming next to impossible to get a bank card without a Visa logo on it.

Then I had some transactions decline and had no idea why. One larger transaction was eventually fixed with a series of phonecalls. One of them actually put my life in danger - I was depending on a taxi app late at night to get home in a rather dangerous African country after an event and all of a sudden the credit card declined and for tiny amounts. So that left me quite passionate about this topic, and I thankfully managed to switch to cash for that taxi app, less to go wrong. I know there are others who have some amount of grudge against these companies.

I've been reading up on it - will not post any links or specific quotes now, but if there are signs of interest, will post a few links when more awake.

The duopoly is of course Mastercard and Visa. Visa is approximately the 10th largest company in the world with all the usual suspects as largest shareholders, Blackrock, Vanguard. I'm writing this from memory so please correct if some slight errors here. Mastercard is about a quarter of the size by market capitalisation, very similar major shareholders.

Apparently there is some technical difference in the networks, Mastercard being more decentralised while Visa having the entire world's transactions handled at a very small number of large data centres in America and one in London.

Of course the duopoly partially switched off transactions in Russia once the war started. They also notably both blocked funding to Wikileaks for a time.

Both these companies started around the 60s when groups of American banks got together to find better solutions for payments processing.

Russia now has its own card, I think it's called Mir but it is only accepted in Russia, Cuba, Venezuela and a couple of other places.

The other American cards, Discover, American Express, Diners Club I don't believe have their own actual network, they just borrow a network from the duopoly.

There are some other networks in Asia, JCB and Unionpay but in the West it really is a duopoly which covers north America, Europe, Oceania and in an incomplete sense the rest of the world. No independent networks for Europe at all.

Something else which is a duopoly are the operating systems Windows and iOS but at least we have Linux..

The mobile phone networks and landline networks are nothing like this - each region has its own although there are some common owners.

I'd be most surprised if Visa and Mastercard were not plotting and scheming a social credit score at Davos. I miss the days of cutting out an order form from a magazine and posting it with a money order or cheque.

It seems benign but it is an almost worldwide duopoly with similar shareholders. All kinds of merchants only accept those 2.

Does anyone know much about this topic or had any experiences worth sharing?
You planning the Fight Club final scene?
 
You mean how they fight each other but only one of them is real..

They won't fight each other unfortunately with the same shareholders, it needs a newcomer to break the duopoly.

There's a lot of discussion about this, here one Europe oriented article -
..and a more general one which discusses it in relation to crypto
This seems like it will be easy to break and the writing is on the wall. Not only that, people will be motivated because they know how long Visa/MC have had a stranglehold on this area, and the banks are the ones fronting the money and allowing delayed payments, to boot. My question is what Visa, for example, is even offering? Why can't the banks just have a blockchain and cut that middle man out? Why should they get 2.5% anymore, at all?

It seems to me that their only option at this point is to use their huge asset base or capital to lobby politicians.
 
I was hunting for some dirt (!) on these companies. These global companies often seem to be up to some kind of deviousness. So far though they seem rather clean apart from the duopolistic behaviour. Worst I could find so far is this :
Visa Inc was excessively pro-Democrat in 2020 with its $1M donation. Mastercard Inc seems cleaner on the same website.

American Express which is not part of the duopoly previously supported Planned Parenthood but it appears to have stopped doing that.

The hidden deviousness is probably around digital ID, CBDC and social credit system (but maybe I'm paranoid..)
 
Worrying stuff..
Visa and Mastercard – are deeply embedded in the scheme to transform the financial landscape into a weaponized transaction control grid through the implementation of digital identities and central bank digital currencies.
 
At the Paris Olympics for purchases of merchandise such as tshirts it was worse than a credit card duopoly - Visa was the only card accepted!

Chaos at Olympics as stalls refuse to accept anything other than sponsor Visa
One British volleyball fan blasted: “Strange Olympic experience of the day…the Paris Olympics have signed a deal with Visa meaning you can’t pay by Mastercard at ANY of the stadium food/drinks/merch stands! Some don’t even accept cash either! I saw people queue for ages and then physically couldn’t pay #VisaOnly.”
...so it's diversity of races and genders at the Olympics, men competing as women etc, blacks racing on the track against whites but lack of diversity when it comes to payment options.

It's hard to believe that that is even legal in a Western country - to turn the credit card duopoly into a monopoly for such a large event.

Have any of you had any experience with the JCB credit card? It may be a way to avoid the globohomo duopoly / monopoly. It's based in Japan but only some countries seem to offer it.
 
I assume that when BRICS gets up and running, not only will they have their own gold-backed currency, I can assume they'll issue their own credit card system, as well. We'll see.
 
The current price of silver is about US$30 per ounce. That is a large size coin, around 4cm or ~1.5" diameter.

A lot of things cost multiples of US$30. What if a business announced it was only accepting cash or silver, no credit cards, just to mix it up a bit.

If you are now allowed to accept only Visa and reject everything else that must also be allowed.
 
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