Christmas is Christian not Pagan

GoodShepherd

GoodShepherd

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I dont see a thread dedicated to Christmas, the great Christian feast and celebration of the incarnation (birth) of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ. It is the season now. Every year I have to hear from Christians and non Christians how this is a Pagan celebration, its also been very trendy for modern Christians to stop celebrating Christmas which is quite silly because its the birthday of Jesus and its proper and right to celebrate Christs birth.
 
25th of December is the day the Church celebrates the birth of Christ, no its not a Pagan date it was first a Christian feast day, the Pagans overlapped this Christian day into a Pagan day not the other way around. The early church celebrated the birth of Christ. Christmas trees are also not pagan but are known as paradise trees. Here is a very good little podcast that covers this topic, we get the date of Christs birth from the bible by getting John the Baptists birthday, Christ was born 6 months after John.

 
GoodShepherd said:
Firstly Santa Claus is actually real, he is based on a 4 century saint called saint Nicolas the bishop of Myra. Here is a short clip about him.

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St Nicholas was real. The man from the North Pole, with elves making toys, and the reindeer and sleigh that magically deliver toys to children around the world. That's not true.

I've been seeing stuff about discovering St Nicholas's tomb, which I think is cool, but I don't like that being used to say Santa Claus is true.
 
Thomas More said:
St Nicholas was real. The man from the North Pole, with elves making toys, and the reindeer and sleigh that magically deliver toys to children around the world. That's not true.

I've been seeing stuff about discovering St Nicholas's tomb, which I think is cool, but I don't like that being used to say Santa Claus is true.
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This is the real santa claus we need to be telling the children about
 
Here's a question: do you guys believe that December 25th was Jesus's birthday, given the Bible does not specify an exact date?

Should it matter to us when Jesus was born, or is it the celebration of his birth that’s more important?
 
Bizet said:
Here's a question: do you guys believe that December 25th was Jesus's birthday, given the Bible does not specify an exact date?

Should it matter to us when Jesus was born, or is it the celebration of his birth that’s more important?
Click to expand...
I believe its that date because its the date the church celebrates it. We get the date of Jesus birth from the date of John the baptists birth thats in the Bible, Jesus was born 6 month later after John so yes its actually in the Bible

We must keep in mind that Christians were celebrating the birth of Christ and easter (Pasca, which is passover) before any Christian even had a Bible and before the official canon of scripture was canonized, I know you not Orthodox as it says "other Christian" under your name but we Orthodox we have an entire calendar for the entire year full of feast days and fasts and these are the dates that we all follow together, for example, the 15th of August is when the Theotokos (the virgin Mary) passed away, so for us Orthodox Christians we dont reinvent the wheel as individuals each generation, we just follow the church calendar, if you listen to the link of the podcast I shared on this thread it will be a really good explanation to listen too regarding this very topic.
 
Bizet said:
Here's a question: do you guys believe that December 25th was Jesus's birthday, given the Bible does not specify an exact date?

Should it matter to us when Jesus was born, or is it the celebration of his birth that’s more important?
Click to expand...
As I understand it, in the early church there was some dispute over the date of Easter. There was a large contingent of people who celebrated it on the fixed date of March 25th.

When a universal date for Easter was agreed in order to appease those who celebrated on March 25th it was proposed that the Annunciation would take place on that date. 9 months after March 25th would be December 25th - which became the date of Nativity.

That doesn't mean to say the birth of Christ didn't actually occur on that day. There are no coincidences and it could be that this was a miraculous alignment. So I don't take it to mean it isn't the actual date, but if it isn't it doesn't really matter what matters is that we celebrate the incarnation of Christ
 
Let God Arise said:
Joseph was the guardian, protector, and betrothed to the Theotokos (Virgin Mary), but not her husband. Every week we sing to the "unwedded bride" who bore Christ Jesus. He was married before, and had children from that marriage, thus the "brothers of Christ", who were half-brothers, in reality.
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I read today that there was a jewish tradition that actually says the children Joseph had were not his own but his brothers Cleopas who died, Joseph took in his brothers children, either way they were definately not the virgin Marys children, it also seems like the church for at least 1500 years always believed that the Virgin Mary was a pure unspotted virgin her entire life, even the protestant fathers believed this.
 
GoodShepherd said:
I read today that there was a jewish tradition that actually says the children Joseph had were not his own but his brothers Cleopas who died, Joseph took in his brothers children, either way they were definately not the virgin Marys children, it also seems like the church for at least 1500 years always believed that the Virgin Mary was a pure unspotted virgin her entire life, even the protestant fathers believed this.
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Its clear from her response to Gabriel that she had no intentions of breaking her chastity when she asks how it can be that she would conceive since she didn't know a man.

She was obviously aware that "knowing a man" was how one conceives a child, so one might ask why she does not just assume she would conceive in the regular manner with Joseph, if she was intenting to marry him and consumate the marriage. Her astonishment comes from the fact that she had made a sacred vow of chastity, and had no intention of breaking it. That is why she reacts with "how can this be?"

Its also notable that Joseph is not around during Christ's ministry whereas Mary is. This gives credence to the notion that Joseph was a lot older, and had passed away by that point.
 
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Bizet said:
Here's a question: do you guys believe that December 25th was Jesus's birthday, given the Bible does not specify an exact date?

Should it matter to us when Jesus was born, or is it the celebration of his birth that’s more important?
Click to expand...
It's plausible. We do know that Jesus was born roughly 6 months after John the Baptist. Based on historical and traditional sources, John's birthday was placed in June and if Christ was born 6 months later then He was probably born in late December or early January. Historically, the 12 days of Christmas refer not to the 12 days leading up to December 25th, but the time period from December 25th to January 5th.

If anyone places more emphasis on the exact day than what the day signifies then they are missing the point. Take Christmas as an opportunity to commemorate the Incarnation of the Son of God and take the Incarnation as an opportunity to commemorate the Atonement that He was born to accomplish.
 
Lawrence87 said:
Its clear from her response to Gabriel that she had no intentions of breaking her chastity when she asks how it can be that she would conceive since she didn't know a man.

She was obviously aware that "knowing a man" was how one conceives a child, so one might ask why she does not just assume she would conceive in the regular manner with Joseph, if she was intenting to marry him and consumate the marriage. Her astonishment comes from the fact that she had made a sacred vow of chastity, and had no intention of breaking it. That is why she reacts with "how can this be?"

Its also notable that Joseph is not around during Christ's ministry whereas Mary is. This gives credence to the notion that Joseph was a lot older, and had passed away by that point.
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This past Sunday my priest preached a sermon at the liturgy which I had never heard about and wasnt aware of, he spoke about the "silence" of Joseph in the gospels, there is no direct speech recorded of Joseph he is completely silent, there was only 1 word that was recorded that was direct speech, when he was asked what the name of the child is, he answered "Jesus".

My priest also went on to explain that the reason Jesus on the cross before giving up His spirit entrusted the diciple John with his mother was because Joseph had already passed on and she didnt have any other children, its the custom to entrust the mother to her children to look after and Jesus wouldnt have broken this custom.
 
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