The Great Soy Boy Debate: Which Side Will You Choose?

Re-posting a 2017 vintage by @Uncle Cr33pin.

Exhibit A: Paul Joseph Watson

If you skip to the three minute mark you can skip past his twitter evidence and get to his sciencey stuff.



Exhibit B: Vegan Gains, The Buff Fairy



Uncle Cr33pin's views on the matter:

After watching the PJW video I noticed in the comments people where saying that some "Vegan Gainz" fellow destroyed this video. So with a open mind I searched for the Vegan Gainz video to hear his side of the story. Upon watching the Vegan Gainz video for about 30 seconds I had made my mind up...Soy is the devil. The Vegan Gainz guy has some muscle and thats great but he talks and acts like a effeminate lil bitch. Only thing he proved to me is that with enough steroids, tofu, dick in the butt, and time in the gym even a soy boy can have muscles.

Whose side are you on?

Some reference material.

Further research material.

By former user:

My degree is in Research Biology with an emphasis in Human Genetics.

I do not believe that soy is a contributing factor. Estradiol and Androgen receptors are different. So an increase in Estrogen will not prevent the effects of Testosterone.

So, here is the thing people don't regularly tell you. You can take all the steriods in the world and if you don't have Androgen receptors nothing will happen. Now, there is a difference between groups based on the number of androgen receptors present. East Asian guys tend to be slightly lower than what we would consider baseline. European men tend to be a touch higher, and African men tend to be the highest. This is all subject to personal genetic differences. You will find Japanese guys for example that have higher androgen receptor density than your average African.... they just tend to be rare.

Also height is controlled by Human Growth Hormone. So this is a completely separate mechanism.

My personal belief regarding Asian genetics is that their culture has always preferred small petite women because it was beneficial in rice growing and they had fewer seasonal growing problems. Compare that to Nordic people for example, where growing seasons were very short and crops were more labor intensive. Nordic men for 1000 years preferred to marry the largest woman they can get to help out with this horrifically difficult farm labor. I mean we know that Romans during their peak empire averaged only 5'5", while their Germanic neighbors averaged 5'8".

Nutrition also plays into this as well. As the average East Asian gets access to proper nutrition their heights will increase. We can already see this happening in South Korea. Interestingly, I believe that more northern and lighter skinned men are more likely to benefit, likely being similar in height to Europeans.

By @Johnnyvee:

Refined carbs elevate blood glucose and insulin, which in turn lead to obesity. Aromatase, the enzyme that aromatizes (reduces) Testosterone (T) to estradiol resides in the adipose tissue.(fat cells) Also, the ratio of carbs to fat, particularly saturated fat, you consume will effect the levels of HDL cholesterol in the body. Cholesterol (and HDL in particular) is a precursor to T. In other words, T is formed mainly from HDL cholesterol in. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6271543 So obesity in men will in all likelihood negatively effect libido, via increased aromatization of T to estradiol.

In addition to that you have the pseudo estrogens present in things like plastics,(parabens) canned foods (BPA) etc. Grains/legumes also, in addition to the downstream effect of blood sugar elevation mentioned, contain phytoestrogens that will effect the natural androgen balance in the human male.

I`m convinced that the main reason you see male T levels drop in the Western world, is the shift in diet from more traditional fat sources,(as opposed to pro-inflammatory seed oils) to a primarily grain based diet. The majority of the current diet in the US consists of; flour, sugar and seed oils. Great for big food producers. (shelf life etc.) Great for big-pharma. (Managing symptoms makes more money than an actual cure.) And great for Governments also, that accept bribes from both these groups. Horrible for people`s health in general, including your hormone homeostasis.


So in summary, skip these flour, sugar and seed oil based "Franken-foods" as much as possible.
Have a nice big steak with `real butter`bearnaise sauce and some vegetables instead, and keep both your health and your male libido going strong.

From @Brebelle3:


My boy has been breastfeeding for a year and a half with plans to continue until he turns at least 2. I make sure my wife eats plenty of grass-fed beef, free range eggs, and sustainable fish. She's Vietnamese, but we've outlawed all soy products.

He's crushing it by growing strong and healthy. No quackcines in his system either.

What a son of Charles Manson would have ended up like, on soy:

The authoritative treatise on the matter

Robin Williams said:

From @Brebelle3:

https://herculeanstrength.com/infants-soy-formula-estrogen-birth-control/

My boy has been breastfeeding for a year and a half with plans to continue until he turns at least 2. I make sure my wife eats plenty of grass-fed beef, free range eggs, and sustainable fish. She's Vietnamese, but we've outlawed all soy products.

He's crushing it by growing strong and healthy. No quackcines in his system either.

Click to expand...

Yep. I see soy in the milk products they are feeding babies in mainstream shops in my area too.

Robin Williams said:

My personal belief regarding Asian genetics is that their culture has always preferred small petite women because it was beneficial in rice growing and they had fewer seasonal growing problems. Compare that to Nordic people for example, where growing seasons were very short and crops were more labor intensive. Nordic men for 1000 years preferred to marry the largest woman they can get to help out with this horrifically difficult farm labor. I mean we know that Romans during their peak empire averaged only 5'5", while their Germanic neighbors averaged 5'8".

Click to expand...

I thought Nordics were taller because of more European Hunter Gatherer genetic influence compared to other groups like Romans or Greeks that have a longer history with agriculture. The tallest people are actually in the Western Balkans, specifically in the mountains of Dalmatia, Herzegovina, and Montenegro where the average male is 6'3". They also have more Hunter Gatherer genes.

Because of the dietary differences between its religious communities, Bosnia-Herzegovina provides a fascinating window into the effect of nutrition on height. Pork is a major source of protein, but its consumption is considered halal (forbidden) in the Muslim tradition. This would explain a difference in stature of 2.2 cm (0.87 in) between the major Muslim part of Sarajevo (181.8 cm; 5.96 ft), and its mainly Serbian eastern outskirts (184.0 cm; 6.03 ft). Also, in other religiously mixed parts of the country (around Gorazde and Mostar), Muslims turn out to be 2-3 cm (0.79-1.12 in) shorter than their Serb or Croat neighbors.

Click to expand...

Make sure to get that filthy pork in boys! Pig makes you big and strong!

I think the pajama boy ad was the first mainstream ad I can recall that encapsulated the effeminate, soy boy phenomenon. It was widely mocked at the time, but the cultural trajectory it represented was certainly spot on considering where we are today - a sexually ambiguous man-child wearing a onesie and holding his lil cup of cocoa like a chick.



There seems to have been a general shift in the way men speak and act (and dress, eg skinny jeans). It's as if a lot of moms were desperate to turn their sons into daughters. I think a lot of younger men have adopted the mannerisms of women - that whole mouth agape, nu-male grin looks off because it's how women show faux shock / surprise. It may look cute when chicks do it but it's not the sort of overwrought affectation you'd expect a guy to display unless he's a flamboyant gay man.

It's a feminized society, that's lost the point of view of men and the control of men, as it's been subverted. That's what the wealth effect does over time, which leads to lack of productivity, profligate spending (feminine trait), and ultimately collapse for a new rebuild/order. With a boom of people there is behavioral sink.

I have. I idea what you’re referring to