Lounge of The Russian-Ukrainian War

This dumpster fire of a deal is complete fantasy, and another waste of time. The Russians will courteously say that it is something that could be used for the basis of negotiations. But those negotiations will never actually happen, and Russia will advance ever faster, all the way to the Dnieper.


Edit: The revised plan has been completely rejected by Russia. Everything goes back to normal.

 
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Russian drone operators found a family with young children that had somehow been surviving for months in the total wasteland that is Volchansk. They communicated through written messages, and then, under the cover of fog, were successfully extracted. A Ukrainian drone tried, but failed to kill them as they were communicating with the Russian operators.

 
If anything gets signed yankees will probably declare it invalid anyway, when the next administration comes along. Witkoff recording scandal seems like a setup to make it easier.
 
jayco said:
If anything gets signed yankees will probably declare it invalid anyway, when the next administration comes along. Witkoff recording scandal seems like a setup to make it easier.
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Things might be settled militarily well before the next administration comes in, so they won't have much room to scuttle a settlement.

Meanwhile in Poland, Ukrainian woman FAFO:
 
Putin is signaling the offered deal isn't good yet.
Looks like Zelensky and Trump playing bad and good cop thing didn't work (again). Waiting for real offer.

Putin restates condition for ending hostilities with Ukraine​

Kiev must first withdraw its troops from the parts of Russian territory it claims as its own, he said.

A ceasefire could be declared only if Ukraine withdraws its troops from the parts of Russian territory it claims as its own, Russian President Vladimir Putin has said.

‘Legally impossible’ to sign peace treaty with Ukraine now – Putin​

Moscow is, however, interested in reaching an agreement with Kiev at some point, the Russian president has reiterated
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In WWI, Germany agreed to an armistice based on Wilson's 14 points, and ceased hostilities, but then when negotiations for the final peace treaty were held, the allies stuck Germany with incredibly onerous terms in Treaty of Versailles, which are widely thought to have set the stage for WW2.

Likewise, in the Russo-Turkish War of 1877-78, Russia clearly won, but then Britain and the other European powers forced modifications to the peace treaty that greatly reduced Russia's gains as the victor.

The lesson here is a ceasefire or armistice is often gained by making initial promises, that turn out to be a bait and switch after the militants have demobilized and lost the leverage they had on the battlefield up to the moment when hostilities ended.

I'm sure that Putin is very much aware of these two examples, and expects that any ceasefire deal he is offered will turn out to be a bait and switch like this. He knows the west is not agreement-capable.
 
Saw today in Dailymail, the real "peace plan" was about exploiting Russian resources.
'Russia has so many vast resources, vast expanses of land,' Witkoff told The Wall Street Journal.
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:mad:
These people (demonic forces, more accuratley) never learn.
That's where you realize US dems will save the day, after all, 3 years down the road, and none of these theft projects will materialize or be cancelled. They will cancel any teritorial recognition too, though, just like that autopen executive order cancellation thing that's happening now.
I wish they all just took 700B of stolen assets and had choked on them, and never been seen or heard from again.
 
jayco said:
Saw today in Dailymail, the real "peace plan" was about exploiting Russian resources.

:mad:
These people (demonic forces, more accuratley) never learn.
That's where you realize US dems will save the day, after all, 3 years down the road, and none of these theft projects will materialize or be cancelled. They will cancel any teritorial recognition too, though, just like that autopen executive order cancellation thing that's happening now.
I wish they all just took 700B of stolen assets and had choked on them, and never been seen or heard from again.
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To be fair, Russia/USSR has always relied on Western assistance to exploit their own resources.
 
Vanilla Houthis.
Ukrainian naval drones struck 2 Russian tankers in the southwestern Black Sea, off the Turkish coast.

Both ships were on their way back to Novorossiysk, so they were empty, and their crews were safely evacuated by the Turkish coast guard. At the moment both ships are still salvageable.
gcaptain.com

Ukrainian Drone Strikes Set Two Russian Shadow Fleet Tankers Ablaze off Turkey

Two sanctioned Russian shadow fleet tankers caught fire in the Black Sea on Friday after suspected Ukrainian naval drone strikes off the Turkish coast. Extensive rescue operations successfully evacuated all...
gcaptain.com gcaptain.com
 
jayco said:
Saw today in Dailymail, the real "peace plan" was about exploiting Russian resources.

:mad:
These people (demonic forces, more accuratley) never learn.
Click to expand...
The impression I got from the WSJ article is that they’re aiming to reintegrate Russia into Western markets. Not pick at the bones like after the breakup of the USSR. And that reintegration will be part of the peace plan.
 
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