The constant attack on the Catholic church

paternos

paternos

Catholic
Heritage
For over centuries, the Catholic Church has faced relentless attacks, with power-hungry elites eyeing its influence. This onslaught got to a whole new level with the French Revolution, which saw the murder of hundreds of priests and the widespread confiscation of church property, lands, and churches. This aggressive policy against the Church has persisted over the past two centuries, relegating it to the margins of society.

In my own parish, I witness parishioners fervently defending our remaining buildings. Unfortunately, our survival now hinges on secular "monument subsidies," which ironically transform our sacred spaces into secular museums.

One might expect that, with the Catholic Church beleaguered, especially in the US and Europe, the intensity of these attacks would diminish. Yet, the opposite is true. The pattern of persecution, reminiscent of what Christ endured, continues unabated.

Consider just a selection of incidents from the past year:
  • In the Swiss Catholic Church, there were reports of 1,000 cases of sexual abuse.
  • Slovenian priest Marko Rupnik was expelled from the Jesuits in June 2023 for decades-long "sexual, spiritual, and psychological abuse of women."
  • In Baltimore, a report released in April 2023 by Maryland's attorney general detailed the sexual abuse of children and teenagers over six decades by clergy in the Archdiocese of Baltimore.
  • A Spanish report on Catholic Church sexual abuse suggests the number of victims could be in the hundreds of thousands. AP News Source
The success of this ongoing propaganda is staggering, leading everyone to question how priests find time for prayer, mass, or confession while they are continuously sexually abusing and murdering kids, like those reported in Canada.

I think it's good to collect these cases in this thread here when they pop up, to grow in our awareness of the constant stream of propaganda produced against the church. I think it heightens our awareness of the relentless propaganda campaign against the Church, helping us to see the broader context of these attacks.

Personally I'm quite disappointed in the Vatican, who accepted the role of child abuser, instead of fighting those making this propaganda.
 
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Are you opining that child sex abuse by clergy is fabricated? I don't understand your reasoning here. Child abuse by clergy is an established fact, so let's not conflate the Canadian church school narrative and wider child sex abuse, because it happened in my church as a child. Please state more clearly what you mean by propaganda. Cases are not propaganda unless they're proved to be fabricated. What I will state is that there's plenty of evidence to show that the RCC is being negatively portrayed by the MSM and the enormous charitable contributions and other net positives regarding the RCC is never covered. That said, the RCC hierarchy has done much to bring the Church into disrepute too. Before we tackle the enemies without, we need to root out the enemies within.
 
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Vas Incrementum said:
Are you opining that child sex abuse by clergy is fabricated? I don't understand you reasoning here. Child abuse by clergy is an established fact, so let's not conflate the Canadian church school narrative and wider child sex abuse, because it happened in my church as child. Please state more clearly what you mean by propaganda. Cases are not propaganda unless they're proved to be fabricated. What I will state is that there's plenty of evidence to show that the RCC is being negatively portrayed by the MSM and the enormous charitable contributions and other net positives regarding the RCC is never covered. That said, the RCC hierarchy has done much to bring the Church into disrepute too. Before we tackle the enemies without, we need to root out the enemies within.
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Are you opining that child sex abuse by clergy is fabricated?
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Yes largely.

I think it's 10x to 200x times exaggerated.

All cases I have seen are extremely exaggerated. Let's take Pennsylvania. In the report 300 priests are accused by name! Allegedly abusing 1000 children. In the end only 2 priests were convicted, John Sweeney and David Poulson.

That means judges only saw the material to convict 2 people! 2 out of 300.

In the child abuse cases anonymous accusations are used as the presented numbers. And we see judges judge differently.

This is exemplary for all the abuse cases I have seen across the world. France, Switzerland etc etc. 100+ accused named priests (thereby ruining their name) and 1 or 2 convicted in court.

Please state more clearly what you mean by propaganda. Cases are not propaganda unless they're proved to be fabricated.
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This is propaganda.

300 accused. 2 convicted.

That's bad work, and it's the same everywhere.

I agree ofcourse that real child abusers should face punishment and ex-communication from the church.

The propaganda is the exaggeration. The prosecutor never gives a press conference after in which he says only 2 could be convicted.

I notice that also in my parish this propaganda is traumatic. It's like the holocaust for Germans.

If you say you are a Catholic the majority of the people think "Oh wow here we have guy who is supporting pedophile priests"

This is propaganda, this is indoctrination. And it's deeply deeply evil in my opinion.
 
OK, I take your point. It's undoubtably true that the Catholic Church is under attack, but like all peopled institutions, the cream has too often [been] sunk to the bottom and many at the top are either weak, perhaps compromised individuals, political ideologues who see themselves as martyrs for the Left or just wicked people. The decision making at the top has been catastrophic for the RCC.

I don't know where you live, but I live in the North of England and don't really get a sense from parishioners feel beleaguered here. The parish isn't exactly thriving, though it's doing better than many.

The Church has had to deal with controversy, oppression and every other kind of evil since its inception, so we shouldn't be too black pilled by it all. In my mind I'm a Christian first and a Catholic second. Anyway I've got more pressing problems to concern myself with than prejudice from dupes and low tier detractors.

In the end denominational distinctions will only be kept by those who hold them, the persecutions, when they come, will not make such distinctions. What I mean by that is that Catholics are too often heavily invested in Catholicism as an identity, cultural Catholicism if you will and forget that we are here to work out our salvation and, hopefully, bring a few souls along with us. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the traditions of the Church and stand tall as a Catholic, it's just that things that have happened to me keep such matters in perspective.
 
Vas Incrementum said:
OK, I take your point. It's undoubtably true that the Catholic Church is under attack, but like all peopled institutions, the cream has too often [been] sunk to the bottom and many at the top are either weak, perhaps compromised individuals, political ideologues who see themselves as martyrs for the Left or just wicked people. The decision making at the top has been catastrophic for the RCC.
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Can you explain what you mean here? Who exactly are you referring to? Top of the Church?

Vas Incrementum said:
I don't know where you live, but I live in the North of England and don't really get a sense from parishioners feel beleaguered here. The parish isn't exactly thriving, though it's doing better than many.
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I think it is mostly aimed at at the masses of the population, creating a branding on the Catholic church. Anyhow we see the Christian faith dwindling (in numbers) all across the west.
Vas Incrementum said:
The Church has had to deal with controversy, oppression and every other kind of evil since its inception, so we shouldn't be too black pilled by it all. In my mind I'm a Christian first and a Catholic second. Anyway I've got more pressing problems to concern myself with than prejudice from dupes and low tier detractors.
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I'm not black pilled, the point is not to feel bad or angry, but to show how the secular institutions are operating and attacking in synchrony.

E.g. the same case could be made for "schools" or "day care". Nobody would ever say: "our schooling system failed last year 3 girls were abused by their teachers" and the minister for education didn't do anything to stop him. He needs to be held responsible for this institutional pedophilia."

The Catholic church is the most powerful Christian institution hence it gets most of the heat. Protestant churches are more divided and hence less interesting to go after. I'm convinced there is similar amounts of abuse there. (as in school, in day care )

Vas Incrementum said:
In the end denominational distinctions will only be kept by those who hold them, the persecutions, when they come, will not make such distinctions. What I mean by that is that Catholics are too often heavily invested in Catholicism as an identity, cultural Catholicism if you will and forget that we are here to work out our salvation and, hopefully, bring a few souls along with us. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the traditions of the Church and stand tall as a Catholic, it's just that things that have happened to me keep such matters in perspective.
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I don't think we will see persecution as in the past. The more persecution, the more attraction.

The modern persecution is more refined. It is using "mocking" of the faithful. It portrays faithful as hypocritical losers.
It's longer term marketing. Slowly the image of the faithful has been changed over a century of Hollywood.

Faithful = boring, hypocritical, degenerate, just there for making themselves feel better than others
 
paternos said:
Can you explain what you mean here? Who exactly are you referring to? Top of the Church?
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I mean what I wrote. The policies made by the decision makers in the Vatican, for relocating offending priests surely must be a policy that came from Rome, were disastrous for the children who were unnecessarily molested and the Church. Ultimately the blame must fall on the pontiff of the time.
 
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Vas Incrementum said:
I mean what I wrote. The policies made by the decision makers in the Vatican, for reallocating offending priests surely must be a policy that came from Rome, were disastrous for the children who were unnecessarily molested and the Church. Ultimately the blame must fall on the pontiff of the time.
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Do you believe that the dynamics of abuse are different in educational settings, childcare facilities, or within families?

It's a known fact that a significant proportion of abuse occurs within family units. In cases where individuals had suspicions but lacked concrete evidence, should they be legally accountable and face trial?

This issue bears resemblance to the discourse around "institutional racism," which, in my opinion, doesn't exist.

Human beings are capable of malevolent actions, and unfortunately, this includes priests.

There are no official directives from the Pope endorsing the concealment of child abuse committed by priests.

Priests are not isolated from society; they are subject to the same laws as everyone else. If a priest commits such an act, they are answerable to the legal system. This has been the case historically and remains so. A priest is not exempt from the law.

Furthermore, no authority within the Vatican has ever suggested otherwise. While divine forgiveness may be a theological concept, every priest is still obligated to abide by local laws and if he breaks those he will be held responsible, back then and now.
 
One point that is missing here is that most of these alleged child-abuse situations occurred after the infiltration and subversion of the Second Vatican Council (Vatican II) 1958-1962. After this sabotage of the Church, done on purpose for the crime of helping the Christian side of World War Two, the victors were not content until all public perception of the church was muddied with a confusing skeptic lack of trust and a vision of slimy old perverted men corrupting young boys, which is something they are inversely protecting now, outside the church with their fag worship. Truly inverted, and an attack on the institution which raised western civilization to what it was before degeneracy set in.
 
MusicForThePiano said:
One point that is missing here is that most of these alleged child-abuse situations occurred after the infiltration and subversion of the Second Vatican Council (Vatican II) 1958-1962. After this sabotage of the Church, done on purpose for the crime of helping the Christian side of World War Two, the victors were not content until all public perception of the church was muddied with a confusing skeptic lack of trust and a vision of slimy old perverted men corrupting young boys, which is something they are inversely protecting now, outside the church with their fag worship. Truly inverted, and an attack on the institution which raised western civilization to what it was before degeneracy set in.
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I agree mostly, but there was never a cardinal that said it was OK to abuse kids.

The reality is:
- that accusations are anonymous, who know if these are true, if you get 2 convictions out of 300, something is VERY off
- the vast majority of the abuse allegations are 18+ women with male priests

We are trained in the propaganda situation to automatically think:

Abuse = Priest doing something with a young kid

This is not true. If you read these researches the vast majority is male priest & 18+ female. Hence we don't see many convictions.
And I think the majority is probably false.

If it were true, I would say prosecute the 300 priests, get them in court, give them the worldly punishment. This happened nowhere.

Media lie. Elites lie.

The church is under attack. Not bullets. But weapons of mass propaganda.
 
I think you may be on to something here. I grew up in the rural south, so I have pretty decent radar telling if a dude is gay or not. And I can count only one time where I met a priest that to me sounded like he was a homosexual.

So given these numbers of supposed abuse, how come I’ve only met one possibly homosexual priest?
 
TheSurveyor said:
I think you may be on to something here. I grew up in the rural south, so I have pretty decent radar telling if a dude is gay or not. And I can count only one time where I met a priest that to me sounded like he was a homosexual.

So given these numbers of supposed abuse, how come I’ve only met one possibly homosexual priest?
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You bring up something very important, is that the propaganda disconnects from our own experiences; what we see, what we think, what we feel.

We need to trust these guys in suits, these teachers, these decorated professors and their propaganda stories over our own experiences, what we see our whole life, day in day out.

I think that it's part of our spiritual path to reconnect to that. To God, to others, to our own eyes.

In the arts I find it very telling, a friend of mine yesterday pointed me to use of music to destroy the soul. Yesterday was All Souls Day where our choir sang a requiem.



Now try Eisler, Hindemith, Schoenberg or other modern post-WW2 subsidized composers.

Papist said:
When I read this, three things sprang to mind:

1) The film Spotlight - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotlight_(film). It's interesting to note who wrote the screenplay and also who the journalist was who reported the story - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Baron.
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Hmm, a "journalist" from Israel attacking the church of Christ..

Papist said:
2) The book Infiltration, by Dr Taylor Marshall.
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I personally dislike Marshall as he puts all blame on the Church. And never points to the forces in the world that are actively lying and deceiving to attack the followers of Christ.

E.g. in the case of the "clergy abuse" he NEVER questioned the allegations, he always points to the corruption and infiltration of the church which made this possible.

To me this is a sign that Marshall is part of the system, he just attacks from the inside. Not for nothing he is part of the "pushed content" on YouTube.

Of course he also flags an important topic that the church has become too much of the "world".

Papist said:
3) Bella Dodd's claim that there was a Communist plot to infiltrate the Church - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bella_Dodd.
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Same criticism I have here as for Marshall.

Personally I'm struck by the lack or courage of most of the clergy to go against the worldly deceivers. I understand it as well. It's hard to be called an apologist for pedophiles, as any priests that goes against the deceivers will be branded like that.

On a side note on the abuse I quite liked this 13 year old article.

A similarly warped conflation has been made in relation to Ireland, now widely looked upon as a country where crazy priests spent most of their days handing out communion wafers and/or raping children. When the report of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse was published in May 2009 – with its analysis of accusations of abuse made by individuals who had attended Irish reform schools between 1940 and 1999 – the media reported it as if it had uncovered apocalyptic, Caligulan levels of sexual depravity. ‘Thousands were raped in Irish reform schools’, said the Independent. ‘Thousands raped in Ireland’s Christian Brothers schools’, said the Belfast Telegraph. ‘Thousands raped and abused in Catholic schools in Ireland’, said the Guardian.

So were thousands of children – in particular boys, the main focus of the media reports – raped in Irish reform schools? No.
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While listening to Fr. Ripperger's talk about the need to pray for our bishops and priests, he mentioned the fact that the percentage of pedophile Catholic priests was lower than protestant pastors and school teachers. Just a nod to the OP. Starts around 32:00
We still need to root them out, but Paternos has a point worthy of discussion.
 
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Pedophilia is a problem in the Catholic Church, just like it's a problem in every institution where you have an authority figure that looks after children, including schools, Boy Scouts, football teams, doctors, etc. In fact, look at the meme that shows the rate of molestation between Jewish rabbis and Catholic priests. I'm certain you will find high rates of molestation in Islam and other Christian sects.

Of course, the rate of pedophilia in the Catholic Church should be 0 and anything higher than that number is an absolute disgrace. The central problem is that Catholic priests have a high rate of homosexuality (there's no doubt the Pink Mafia rules a large portion of the Vatican). The solution is to allow Catholic Priests to marry. The beauty of the Catholic Church is the Papacy has the divine and absolute authority to both bind and loosen, and it's clear that the Vatican should loosen the Chasity vows of priests.

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It's not just a papal decree allowing for clergy to marry, which would fix many things, it's primarily the infiltration and subversion of men who have not rooted out their lustful gluttony and demonic sexual influences putting on the cloth. Post-Vatican II saw a rise in the number of priests (although the figures are still fictitiously overblown) engaging in molesting behavior. Very likely many of the ones who comprised this statistic were homosexuals who did not have the proper spiritual guidance to shed this demon from themselves. Priests have been guilty of many things over the centuries, even Cardinals, Bishops, and Popes too. Alighieri was very descriptive in placing these men in their literary punishments in the Divine Comedy to show how men of the faith when doing something criminal, either against a nation's laws, or against God's laws, are too held responsible.
 
BasilSeal said:
If other religions have this problem as you stated, and also allow married clergy as they do, why do you suppose marriage is the main issue and solution for Catholicism?
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Agreed, Protestants all have married pastors and are still susceptible to abuse. It’s the fault of the person, not the tradition.

This idea of married priest in the Roman church comes from a lack of understanding as to why the tradition came about in the first place.

The idea of being able to properly fulfill the duties as a husband/father/breadwinner/confessor/spiritual director/celebrant is a lot and ,in most cases, too much for your average man. That’s why the tradition has been fine as it has been for centuries.
 
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