If God real why bad thing happen

scary_robot_music

scary_robot_music

Heirloom
Other Christian
I've never been one to doubt God's existence because of all the horrible things that happen in the world. I grew up very religious and eventually became an agnostic for a time, but for completely different reasons.

Lately on a lot of other forums on online venues I've run into a lot of atheists who will tell a story of something terrible, say a woman kidnapped and repeatedly raped while praying to be saved the whole time, but nothing. The cops eventually rescue her after a few weeks but she's broken and traumatized for life. Then the atheist says:

WHERE WERE GOD AND JESUS, CHRISTIANS????!!!! HAHAHA. CHECKMATE!

As if he's the first person to ever ask "If God real why bad thing happen"? It seems so childish, yet a lot of people think this way.

Since finding my faith again, my answer to this dilema has always been "I don't know, but God is real." I found this meme:

ifgodreal.jpg

It's pretty good, but I don't think it would do much to convince anyone who might be on the fence about the existence of God in a debate between a believer and an atheist about the existence of God.

Does anyone have anything better? I mean something a bit less cerebral that might appeal more to the masses.
 
considering that all atheists are homosexual (and this comes with a whole slew of negative traits), their notion of good and evil is quite warped from reality. for instance, the fact that there are consequences if you engage in endless anal intercourse is proof enough of a godless universe. rather than get frustrated, just bear in mind that you will be trying to establish rational discourse with someone whose political and ideological leanings are all out of whack with reality.
 
There's a meme I saw but can't find it now. A man is in the desert dying of thirst. He sees water on flat ground in the distance but it is a mirage. On the other side he sees tall mountains and obstacles, and God is telling him to go there. There is water there but it is hidden behind the mountains. He refuses to follow God's plan and goes towards the easy to reach mirage instead.

I thought it perfectly illustrated that God sees our future, He sees what will most benefit us later on even if we must suffer today. And most people are not willing to struggle for Him even a bit.
 
scary_robot_music said:
Since finding my faith again, my answer to this dilema has always been "I don't know, but God is real." I found this meme:

ifgodreal.jpg


It's pretty good, but I don't think it would do much to convince anyone who might be on the fence about the existence of God in a debate between a believer and an atheist about the existence of God.
Click to expand...
This meme is the Biblical answer. God allows bad things to happen so that He may bring a greater good out of the bad situation. He accomplishes demonstrations of both His Just Wrath against sin and His Mercy toward sinners. Whether the atheist accepts that or not doesn't really matter, it's the truth. In fact, the Bible says that he will reject it because He is already rejecting God.

The alternative answer to this is God allows bad things to happen because free will. While this is true in a limited sense, it is not absolutely true. If God always allows evil free will choices and never puts a stop to them then He is the Deist God, He just doesn't care.
 
The problem with bad things is only a concern for those who don't believe in God- there will be no remedy, ever, nobody will be made whole. All the many human caused bad things will also go unpunished, future generations may suffer from what they had nothing to do with, and nothing will save them at that moment or in the future.

If the atheists want to know the Christian perspective they must look at the whole system. We had been given a perfect world without bad things and we lost it by letting evil in. Now, God is good and merciful and he allows only a limited amount- much less than what we have brought/are bringing upon ourselves- of evil to afflict us, knowing what we can bear. Everything we deserve- all that we've stirred up- could crush us.

But all of that is finite and limited, even if a whole life is a long series of suffering, death will bring a stop to it. Recall how much our Lord and God Jesus himself had to suffer, and he didn't have to. This is the goodness of God.

Then imagine you're looking at your life from your place in Heaven- how insignificant, how infinitely small everything bad you went through will seem, maybe you'll have no memory of any of that at all. In Hell you might be tormented by amplified, horrible memories I suppose.

The only thing that will matter will be how close you got to living your life according to God's will, that will be your treasure, how you adhered to his commandments. The glory of God, the eternal life, the joy and happiness, all that goodness and beauty that exceeds our imagination is infinite and will last forever.

Going back to ninth grade now- even if the sum of all the bad things that came your way adds up to some terribly large numerical value, it is a finite number after all. That number over infinity is zero. The bad things we had gone through will have no significance.

That's our future, we don't have to guess if things may improve or not. What are atheists going to do when the going gets tough and there is no hope, with even worse things on the horizon, kill themselves? What is their reason for living?

Making it to Heaven is all that matters, like St.Paul- stay in this good fight, keep the faith, and finish the race.


If atheists accept our belief in God they must accept we also believe God didn't promise us a world without bad things here after Eden.

The Bible says life will be though, there will be pain.

But this is not our world any more, we have a way out, and there are no bad things happening in Heaven.
 
Last edited:
The universe is built on cause and effect. You might get hit by a car and die from blunt trauma. Just how it works. As you progress through life you will hit bumps in the road; abuse, pain, hopelessness, limitations, regrets, injustice, lost time, mistakes, etc. These things wear down your spirit like progressive age wears down your body. They also have a compounding effect on the urge to become depraved. The level of submission you have towards God determines whether those things are successful in extinguishing your soul. It works from a agnostic perspective as well. To make it super simple, agnostic friendly, it's about dying when the time comes with honor, standing on your feet, not on your knees. That's how I perceive it. Nothing to do with God being your babysitter.
 
Part of the answer is that the resurrection and the eternal Kingdom of God will make the trials of this life fade into insignificance. No more sorrow, no more pain, every tear will be dried.

Eye has not seen, ear has not heard, nor has it entered into the mind of men what God has prepared for those who love him. All things work together for good to those who love God, and are called according to his purpose.

The pain of this world, and even the greatest blessings of this world pale in comparison to our inheritance in Christ.
 
NSOE said:
The problem with bad things is only a concern for those who don't believe in God- there will be no remedy, ever, nobody will be made whole.
Click to expand...
Yes, one of the best responses that teaches the point is also the question, "If God doesn't exist, why do bad things happen?"
NSOE said:
But all of that is finite and limited, even if a whole life is a long series of suffering, death will bring a stop to it. Recall how much our Lord and God Jesus himself had to suffer, and he didn't have to. This is the goodness of God.
Click to expand...
It surprises me the most, and sadly so, that Christians get lost in the secular world and forget the teaching that is the most clear "If it happened to me, it'll happen to you" - a student is not above his master. The proof, in my view, that Christ is God and that human suffering matters is that He participates in everything we go through, overcomes it all (and without sin!), and does this all willingly. I've always called this the ultimate skin in the game, since no human believes in others that talk but don't act. He is precisely what every man is looking for: integrity, honor, love, and most importantly, the one who defeats the last enemy, death.
 
Caduceus said:
I'm no fan of godless atheists or sodomizing faggots, but this statement is just false.
Click to expand...
Thanks for saying this. The only way in which that statement is even close to true is that most atheists are in political and social circles where, if not homosexuals themselves, they're at least obliged to express sufficient enthusiasm about homosexuality and all its permutations like transsexuality. Then again, you could probably say the same about most mainstream Christians nowadays.
 
Blade Runner said:
Yes, one of the best responses that teaches the point is also the question, "If God doesn't exist, why do bad things happen?"
Click to expand...
And it should be sufficient to disarm the atheists who try to attach God to bad occurrences. Their view is illogical but they're too prideful to see.

I can't blame God for any bad thing since I'm not a believer, but because you are, I will. Why is the world the way it is, if your God is good- we were once given a paradise, and we'll have it again, bit since you don't believe in God your question makes no sense.

Where does their notion of good vs bad come from? We know that it's not an issue hinging on relativism, which it would be without God.
In Pre-Christian times people knew that God is the highest good, and the true source of all morality, we have the book of Genesis where God says his creation is good.

Reading through all the responses, a meme to counter the thread title could be something like:

If good God real and bad thing happen, then good God not real.

Since there no God (anchor of all morality), when bad thing happen to you, bad thing not bad.

It all very good you hurt, dead, and annihilated, very good for animal and planet.


The very existence of the world proves God is real, and that He is good, since goodness dominates and decisively dwarfs evil, which would otherwise bring destruction/annihilation. It almost seems like God had to create the fallen-angel-proof Hell, for the demons to be confined to, since without the smallest shred of good will, they'd cause it to collapse into nothingness.

How do atheists imagine a world without God? Who told them their very own existence, or that of the universe is good? Why? Because they can have a little bit of a good time for a while? OK then, so rape is good for the rapist but bad for his victim, who gets to be the arbiter- oh but it destroys social cohesion, but unless it affects the majority, it really doesn't, life will go on uninterrupted for most not directly involved.

So maybe because of the consensus the majority reached? Then in a society of ten people who are self reliant and don't leech off of one another, if nine agree to take/steal everything from the individual standing alone, and it's good and beneficial for them, everything would be good, their victim be damned. If evolution were true, this is how it could be- everything is good if it's to your advantage, if you can get away with it.

We live in a might makes right world on the macro level. I think it would be good for my life, if certain people got killed, but in interpersonal relations people feel something is off if they wrong someone- if God's grace is upon them- including non Christians.

Theologians have said since forever, how nothing makes sense without God.


Blade Runner said:
The proof, in my view, that Christ is God and that human suffering matters is that He participates in everything we go through, overcomes it all (and without sin!), and does this all willingly. I've always called this the ultimate skin in the game, since no human believes in others that talk but don't act. He is precisely what every man is looking for: integrity, honor, love, and most importantly, the one who defeats the last enemy, death.
Click to expand...
Yes, God wouldn't be good if he hadn't done that for us. We are just dust compared to His infinite greatness, and yet in his unbound goodness he went through hell for wretches like us. Atheists don't have a point trying to prove He's bad, and therefore non existent.

Like Thomas said above, Jesus through his Resurrection nullifies everything that's bad, if we only accept Him and take advantage of His sacrifice. If not, everybody will have to take rightful ownership of all the evil originated through his actions, and take it with him to Hell. Where all the unredeemed bad things return to sinners, and stay with them for eternity.
 
Last edited:
NSOE said:
Their argument is such a strawman. Genesis, the first book of the Bible explains why at the very beginning.
Click to expand...

An atheist believes it's cruel to be made to suffer, indirectly acknowledging the loving nature of God. Given the unfathomable proposition of God hurting us the atheist chooses to believe in a random universe, indirectly acknowledging that our reality is marked by a separation from God. The atheist finds comfort in believing that only the tangible can alleviate suffering, recommitting the original sin, doomed to seek the absence of suffering in the temporary and the fleeting. In end the suffering and death the atheist experiences ends up not so random but by his own design.
 
starlight said:
"If no God, why good happen?"
Click to expand...
"Because I made it happen by myself."

Christians go through a process of deeper understanding, usually up to a point, and this is one of those questions that we like to contemplate. However, for people who don't want to listen to God, there is no point in engaging with them when they employ reddit tier framing. They are not listening. They are not ready. I would certainly pray for someone like this, but I wouldn't waste my time talking to them with any kind of direct answer.

Try a parable. That's about it. They'll change their question's focus to something better when they're ready to listen to God. Arguing with them just fuels their delusion of self-reliance.
 
Many people who ask why bad things happen often hold a mistaken perception: they assume the purpose of life in this world is to experience joy. Under that assumption, God appears cruel for allowing suffering.

But that’s not the point. We come into this world to learn.

The following text was originally written by an Iranian author named Ali Sina:

We enter a world of injustice to develop spiritual faculties that cannot be cultivated in the next life. Take courage, for example—a spiritual faculty that can only be acquired by confronting and overcoming fear. In the other world, there is no fear, because there is no harm and no death. We come here to face danger and fear, so that we may learn courage.

To develop generosity, one must part with something dear and offer it to someone in need. In heaven, no one lacks anything, and nothing needs to be given away—everything is already available. But here, we give from ourselves, sacrificing something that diminishes us materially but enriches others spiritually. That is how generosity is formed.

Consider honesty. In heaven, there are no secrets. Every soul is transparent—one can instantly perceive another’s history, experiences, and essence. There is no room for deception. But here, everything is hidden. We can lie, deceive, swindle, and embezzle. It is in this hiddenness that we are given the choice: to be honest or dishonest. And through that choice, we either gain the faculty of honesty or fail to develop it. This faculty is crucial, especially if we hope to be entrusted with higher responsibilities in the next world.

Forgiveness, too, can only be learned through injustice. No one can wrong you in heaven. So we come here to be wronged—so that we may learn how to forgive.

This is the point most people miss. If you believe this life is all there is, then blaming God seems justified—after all, the world is imperfect and unjust.

But if you understand that this life is a place for spiritual growth, you begin to see hardship not as punishment, but as a blessing. Instead of complaining, you thank God for the opportunity to face challenges and overcome them. Winning or losing isn’t what matters. What truly counts is how much we learn, and how deeply we grow in spirit.​
 
Seng Hock said:
Consider honesty. In heaven, there are no secrets. Every soul is transparent—one can instantly perceive another’s history, experiences, and essence.
Click to expand...
Since we are forgiven, and the sins redeemed, I'd think only our righteous glory and holiness will be visible in heaven. It's possible bad experiences can be visible, maybe it won't bother us seeing how God used it to bring about a much greater good than what we had known.

From what I understand our glory will be proportional to how holy a life each of us has lived. I don't know about history, hard to say, all the evil happening in the world everyday- will it be preserved as memories in heaven?

The Catholic Church teaches that during Judgement Day, when all are assembled together- the holiness and the sins of everybody will be shown for all creation to see, as we are judged individually, I hope it's not true I would be terrified lol. In Hell souls can see the sins and depravity of their own and that of others, as well as of the demons- from what one Catholic nun has described.

For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open

- Luke 8:17


Is there a known to science detector of bad (and good) available? What is the unit of measurement? Unless atheists can show me such a device, how can they ask these questions seriously.

Without God nobody can define why something is bad, can you chemically or mathematically test for it? Neurological signals and pain can be detected but who can say it is bad, and why?

AI can only tell you in pretty sentences what the Internet and the database it was trained on think. It cannot tell you if something is good or bad, ugly or pretty- you can only program it with your own set of rules (train it) to search for and recognize what some given set of people consider that.

If your perception was limited to seeing elementary particle matter, it would be easier to realize nothing can be considered objectively bad, everything would be seen as just particles reshuffling constantly- neither good nor bad in itself, but merely existing.

When God's truth enters the picture, we can start to differentiate between the two. Things are good because God has ordained them so and infused this perception in us- So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him. The devil will tell you he is good, while God is bad- at least as long as you are alive and not walking in God's light. As the father of lies, does he believe what he says?
 
NSOE said:
From what I understand our glory will be proportional to how holy a life each of us has lived. I don't know about history, hard to say, all the evil happening in the world everyday- will it be preserved as memories in heaven?

The Catholic Church teaches that during Judgement Day, when all are assembled together- the holiness and the sins of everybody will be shown for all creation to see, as we are judged individually, I hope it's not true I would be terrified lol. In Hell souls can see the sins and depravity of their own and that of others, as well as of the demons
Click to expand...
No information is ever lost when we die. For example, if we punch someone, in the next life we will experience the pain we inflicted, seeing it from the victim’s perspective. The same applies to kindness— even small acts, such as caring for flowers by the roadside, will never be forgotten. These deeds remain and carry over into the next life.

You are correct that in heaven only light exists, while darkness belongs in hell. Karl Marx and Lenin, for deceiving millions and causing immense suffering, are in hell. There, they feel the agony of those millions of victims—an excruciating torment beyond imagination. Moreover, every time modern-day communists inflict suffering, Marx and Lenin’s punishment increases, because the consequences of their actions continue to bear bitter fruit even centuries after their deaths.​

NSOE said:
When God's truth enters the picture, we can start to differentiate between the two. Things are good because God has ordained them so and infused this perception in us- So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him. The devil will tell you he is good, while God is bad- at least as long as you are alive and not walking in God's light. As the father of lies, does he believe what he says?
Click to expand...
Yes, that is why evil people believe they are good—because they do not have the Holy Spirit within them. Marx believed he was good for putting his evil pen to paper, and Lenin believed he was good for assassinating the Romanovs. Likewise, leftists think they are good for supporting LGBTQ causes. Yet true Christians can clearly see that none of these actions are even remotely good.​
 
There's no answer that will satisfy an atheist.

Some points I like to raise are:

1. Love does not mean always making someone feel good. If a child is eating chocolate every day and their teeth are rotting you are going to take away their chocolate and make them go to the dentist even if they are crying and distraught about it. Just letting their teeth rot and allowing them to get diabetes because eating chocolate makes them feel good would be a complete and abject failure when it comes to loving them. Love entails at times making your beloved suffer in order to achieve a greater good.

2. Atheists will ignore things being made right in the afterlife. So their version of the problem of evil is not an internal critique, its a semi-internal critique. They will assume God when they say "why would God allow a child to get cancer and die?" But then they act like an atheist when they assume getting cancer and dying is a pointlessly intense period of pain followed by senseless oblivion. Whereas the actual view they should contend with is that this was allowed for the salvation of the entire family and dying from cancer is a small price to pay for an eternity in paradise.

3. Ultimately the problem of evil is arrogant because it suggests that things could or should be ordered differently. So it could be rendered as "if God why am I not God?" Because thats what it boils down to. Why doesn't God order things how I want? Why doesn't He do it this way? If I was God I would do it like this... its just pride at the base of it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top